Do you mean when she left her dying mother, vowing to never come back? I did not read that as making a stand.
Yes, I did mean her breaking the pattern of her previous behaviour, though the fact that she keeps running suggests a huge amount of fear. I don't think that fear and making a stand are mutually exclusive. Sometimes, I think, it takes massive fear to force to to a state where you're finally willing to make that stand. Perhaps I'd say that she kept running because she knew if she stopped to think she'd go back, so not giving herself the chance to think...maybe that was her subconscious pushing her towards her stand?
Either way, for the first time, she broke the pattern of behaviour deliberately and announced that as her intention. So whatever positive or negative emotions that grew out of, I'd call it a stand.
She did need to go back. Think of the abusive relationships that people refuse to leave because they *know* the abuser loves them. She always went back.
I guess I'd say it doesn't matter how much they love each other, it's an incredibly unhealthy relationship. Sometimes the healthiest thing an abused person can do for the abuser is leave until the abuser gets themselves sorted. Every time Kara went back, it might have been from the purest motivations, but she was tacitly legitimising her mother's treatment of her. She was saying, you can treat me however you want and I will return; there's no danger of loosing me.
So I think her continued returning was part of a very unhealthy pattern.
I would agree that her going back was deeply rooted in her psyche; perhaps even necessary in a cathartic way - in an experience such as this. Breaking chronic patterns of behaviour is highly distressing and likely to trigger all kinds of feelings that Kara clearly didn't handle at the time and then festered. But the point is, tragic timing re: terminal illnesses aside, Starbuck didn't need to go back to her mother at that time. In order to protect herself and her own heatlh, she needed to remove herself from that situation until her mother was willing to make an effort and approach her daughter with the respect she deserved as a human being.
The fact that she kept seeing the young Kara was very important. As you said further on, she's still that six year old girl, hoping for her mother's love.
And the fact that she never got that is tragic. But she's not going to get it by hoping. I saw the girl as a sign that she was still very much reacting as that child - from within the pattern of abuse - not from a position of rational understanding. Understanding that perhaps her mother was too ill to ever really offer her what she wanted.
Also of note, is the fact that Kara establishes that it was not Leoben that she was dealing with. I liked that and am intrigued to see if there is a revelation to come from this.
Aaah! Cool! Maybe he's Not!Leoben in the same way that Gaius' Head!Six is not Caprica!Six but an "angel of God"?
Actually, it's a biblical statement. It's been made clear (to me) that the Cylons are all about The One God - as in the Christian God - and much of what they believe, their words and their actions has indeed come very much from the bible.
Yeah, I've always read the Cylon religion as analogous to Christianity; I've never really understood the assumed parallel with current situation with them cast as the Muslims. I mean, yes, they're religious fundamentalists and they're on a crusade; but their actual religion is much more similar to Christianity. The Colonials' religion, while not close to Islam, is the one that has shifted to sanction terrorism and suicide bombing. Not that I think either is supposed to be an exact allegory; confusion the boundries is always the most interesting option. Religion is one topic I think BSG handles well pretty consistantly.
I hope Sam doesn't get sidelined now. At least let us see his reaction. He loved her enough to want to risk everything to save her before, even knowing what she was about.
Re: Responding as I read...
Yes, I did mean her breaking the pattern of her previous behaviour, though the fact that she keeps running suggests a huge amount of fear. I don't think that fear and making a stand are mutually exclusive. Sometimes, I think, it takes massive fear to force to to a state where you're finally willing to make that stand. Perhaps I'd say that she kept running because she knew if she stopped to think she'd go back, so not giving herself the chance to think...maybe that was her subconscious pushing her towards her stand?
Either way, for the first time, she broke the pattern of behaviour deliberately and announced that as her intention. So whatever positive or negative emotions that grew out of, I'd call it a stand.
She did need to go back. Think of the abusive relationships that people refuse to leave because they *know* the abuser loves them. She always went back.
I guess I'd say it doesn't matter how much they love each other, it's an incredibly unhealthy relationship. Sometimes the healthiest thing an abused person can do for the abuser is leave until the abuser gets themselves sorted. Every time Kara went back, it might have been from the purest motivations, but she was tacitly legitimising her mother's treatment of her. She was saying, you can treat me however you want and I will return; there's no danger of loosing me.
So I think her continued returning was part of a very unhealthy pattern.
I would agree that her going back was deeply rooted in her psyche; perhaps even necessary in a cathartic way - in an experience such as this. Breaking chronic patterns of behaviour is highly distressing and likely to trigger all kinds of feelings that Kara clearly didn't handle at the time and then festered. But the point is, tragic timing re: terminal illnesses aside, Starbuck didn't need to go back to her mother at that time. In order to protect herself and her own heatlh, she needed to remove herself from that situation until her mother was willing to make an effort and approach her daughter with the respect she deserved as a human being.
The fact that she kept seeing the young Kara was very important. As you said further on, she's still that six year old girl, hoping for her mother's love.
And the fact that she never got that is tragic. But she's not going to get it by hoping. I saw the girl as a sign that she was still very much reacting as that child - from within the pattern of abuse - not from a position of rational understanding. Understanding that perhaps her mother was too ill to ever really offer her what she wanted.
Also of note, is the fact that Kara establishes that it was not Leoben that she was dealing with. I liked that and am intrigued to see if there is a revelation to come from this.
Aaah! Cool! Maybe he's Not!Leoben in the same way that Gaius' Head!Six is not Caprica!Six but an "angel of God"?
Actually, it's a biblical statement. It's been made clear (to me) that the Cylons are all about The One God - as in the Christian God - and much of what they believe, their words and their actions has indeed come very much from the bible.
Yeah, I've always read the Cylon religion as analogous to Christianity; I've never really understood the assumed parallel with current situation with them cast as the Muslims. I mean, yes, they're religious fundamentalists and they're on a crusade; but their actual religion is much more similar to Christianity. The Colonials' religion, while not close to Islam, is the one that has shifted to sanction terrorism and suicide bombing. Not that I think either is supposed to be an exact allegory; confusion the boundries is always the most interesting option. Religion is one topic I think BSG handles well pretty consistantly.
I hope Sam doesn't get sidelined now. At least let us see his reaction. He loved her enough to want to risk everything to save her before, even knowing what she was about.
Totally.