beccatoria (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
beccatoria) wrote2010-10-10 03:29 pm
beccatoria) wrote2010-10-10 03:29 pm
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Fringe: The Box & The Plateau
So, I really oughta write up my thoughts on these!
So there are two main things I want to discuss here - ALtlivia and Walter.
Altlivia I'm actually enjoying a lot more than I thought I would. I thought I'd enjoy her but...while I don't love her as much as either Ourlivia or Walter, I'm starting to see the commonalities between her and Ourlivia, while she still feels very much like a different character. I love that she puts Newton in his place - she has such an aggressive swagger while Ourlivia's is so understated but authoritative.
I thought the scene where she killed the deaf dude was really well handled because she obviously felt bad for him but also, she has a mission and she honestly believed this was necessary, essentially to save her entire world. And if she didn't, Newton would have, or the police would have found her if the deaf dude went to them, which he was trying to do at the time. But at the same time, she murdered a guy, stashed him in her bathroom and then made out with a dude to cover it up, so I think it's gonna be a balancing act if they want to keep her away from the "Evil Olivia" stereotype for the masses. That said, if they CAN manage that, it's a lot more impressive, interesting and worthy to do with a character who's willing to kill civilians in the name of the bigger picture, especially if you can draw strong parallels between that character and the female lead.
Oddly, despite my strong dislike of Peter/Olivia (more below), I kind of ship Peter/Altlivia and am sort of hoping beyond both hope and likelihood that when Ourlivia gets back there isn't an icky triangle because Peter just sticks with Altlivia and Ourlivia can go out and get hammered about it and then go back to being the Man of the House for her hilarious little family unit with Rachel and Ella. But I think this is highly unlikely. Although I do miss watching Olivia get hammered because dagnabbit, they both think they're the teatotal version and I find the lack of hard liquor unacceptable!
WALTERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. Omgs, I missed him. And it was so nice to see that things aren't just magically fixed for him and Peter and more than that, that he's compensating by interacting more with Astrid. Because the show always needs more Astrid, but especially needs more Walter and Astrid friendship and it was just so...touching and sad, the way he confides in her and the way he goes to her at the end.
I do wonder what Nina's letter said and whether she'll be superpissed at Bell for not leaving her the company or whether she knew that was going to happen. And I just have SO no idea about what's going to happen with Walter owning Massive Dynamic that I'm not even going to TRY and guess.
Moving on to the Plateau!
In this one I pretty much just want to talk about Oliviaaaaaaa. OMG, Anna Torv is a really good actress and it pains me that probably lots of people still think she's "wooden" just because they don't like the way she handles Olivia - a character that's supposed to be, well, wooden in some ways. Because watching this, I really thought I was going to miss Ourlivia like woah, and I did but also, I felt like I was watching her? So instead of it being, dagnabbit, wake UP I was the REAL one back, I felt like I was watching the real one with an endless "Oh honey," desire to hug her until she works out what's really real or not.
I love how much her team love her, and that Charlie loves and trusts her enough to question the official line - I hope when she inevitably remembers (which I'm not 100% certain she did by the end of the episode), I hope he's there for her as an ally.
As to the very end, I'm soooo torn. Because on the one hand, I'm so happy that her own subconscious is explicitly telling her what's up, even if she continues to fight it. And I can even handle it being through the medium of Peter. But I really, really don't ship them (even though, weirdly, I ship Peter with Altlivia). I see them more as siblings and just don't see the chemistry between them. I also confess that I have some past baggage about shows *cough*BSG*cough* where putting the expected guy together with the expected girl has just led to some really depressing narrative failure and I guess some of my attitude is based around those fears. If I didn't have that baggage I think I'd be bored by it, but not as actively annoyed. Blah.
So I'm trying to concentrate on the fact she's still her and not worry too much about the inevitable love triangle especially since I also generally loathe love triangles like burning.
And those are my thoughts! :)
So there are two main things I want to discuss here - ALtlivia and Walter.
Altlivia I'm actually enjoying a lot more than I thought I would. I thought I'd enjoy her but...while I don't love her as much as either Ourlivia or Walter, I'm starting to see the commonalities between her and Ourlivia, while she still feels very much like a different character. I love that she puts Newton in his place - she has such an aggressive swagger while Ourlivia's is so understated but authoritative.
I thought the scene where she killed the deaf dude was really well handled because she obviously felt bad for him but also, she has a mission and she honestly believed this was necessary, essentially to save her entire world. And if she didn't, Newton would have, or the police would have found her if the deaf dude went to them, which he was trying to do at the time. But at the same time, she murdered a guy, stashed him in her bathroom and then made out with a dude to cover it up, so I think it's gonna be a balancing act if they want to keep her away from the "Evil Olivia" stereotype for the masses. That said, if they CAN manage that, it's a lot more impressive, interesting and worthy to do with a character who's willing to kill civilians in the name of the bigger picture, especially if you can draw strong parallels between that character and the female lead.
Oddly, despite my strong dislike of Peter/Olivia (more below), I kind of ship Peter/Altlivia and am sort of hoping beyond both hope and likelihood that when Ourlivia gets back there isn't an icky triangle because Peter just sticks with Altlivia and Ourlivia can go out and get hammered about it and then go back to being the Man of the House for her hilarious little family unit with Rachel and Ella. But I think this is highly unlikely. Although I do miss watching Olivia get hammered because dagnabbit, they both think they're the teatotal version and I find the lack of hard liquor unacceptable!
WALTERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. Omgs, I missed him. And it was so nice to see that things aren't just magically fixed for him and Peter and more than that, that he's compensating by interacting more with Astrid. Because the show always needs more Astrid, but especially needs more Walter and Astrid friendship and it was just so...touching and sad, the way he confides in her and the way he goes to her at the end.
I do wonder what Nina's letter said and whether she'll be superpissed at Bell for not leaving her the company or whether she knew that was going to happen. And I just have SO no idea about what's going to happen with Walter owning Massive Dynamic that I'm not even going to TRY and guess.
Moving on to the Plateau!
In this one I pretty much just want to talk about Oliviaaaaaaa. OMG, Anna Torv is a really good actress and it pains me that probably lots of people still think she's "wooden" just because they don't like the way she handles Olivia - a character that's supposed to be, well, wooden in some ways. Because watching this, I really thought I was going to miss Ourlivia like woah, and I did but also, I felt like I was watching her? So instead of it being, dagnabbit, wake UP I was the REAL one back, I felt like I was watching the real one with an endless "Oh honey," desire to hug her until she works out what's really real or not.
I love how much her team love her, and that Charlie loves and trusts her enough to question the official line - I hope when she inevitably remembers (which I'm not 100% certain she did by the end of the episode), I hope he's there for her as an ally.
As to the very end, I'm soooo torn. Because on the one hand, I'm so happy that her own subconscious is explicitly telling her what's up, even if she continues to fight it. And I can even handle it being through the medium of Peter. But I really, really don't ship them (even though, weirdly, I ship Peter with Altlivia). I see them more as siblings and just don't see the chemistry between them. I also confess that I have some past baggage about shows *cough*BSG*cough* where putting the expected guy together with the expected girl has just led to some really depressing narrative failure and I guess some of my attitude is based around those fears. If I didn't have that baggage I think I'd be bored by it, but not as actively annoyed. Blah.
So I'm trying to concentrate on the fact she's still her and not worry too much about the inevitable love triangle especially since I also generally loathe love triangles like burning.
And those are my thoughts! :)
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I was pretty much altOlivia/Peter too until I saw how Frank really cares for altOlivia and now I'm conflicted because Frank is really committed to altOlivia and I hope altOlivia doesn't develop romantic feelings for Peter because I really like Frank.
Um, I have a thing for stand up guys/girls who get left behind because destiny says they are not the True Love of the girl. I also hope the love triangle doesn't happen because that's so tired and not something I see any Olivia participating in.
I really love that Charlie, in whatever world, knows Olivia. He's always a stand up guy and it will be sad the day ourOlivia has to leave altCharlie behind. I hope altCharlie will go with OurOlivia to Our Side!
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Um, I have a thing for stand up guys/girls who get left behind because destiny says they are not the True Love of the girl.
Awww, yes, I can see why you'd like that. I don't think you ever watched the new Battlestar Galactica? And honestly I'm not sure I'd recommend it since, in my opinion, it divebombed into awful in its final half season (which was terribly upsetting since it was AMAZING before that!) but, you might want to check bits of it out anyway (plus you might even disagree with me about the end), because it features a character just like that who then actually ended up coming back from nonspecial exile and getting the girl, while being stoic and standup and supportive the whole time. It was really surprising, though it pleased me. Anyway, it's the dude in my icon - Sam Anders.
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This was a totally unexpected quotable thing to find and love in your Fringe write-up, but I dooooooo love it so. SAMMY! The way to get me even more sympathetic to Frank is definitely to compare him to my favorite supportive TV character.
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Yes, I do see how Frank and Ourlivia working a lot more than Peter/Olivia because I can't shake the sibling vibe I got from them during season 1 and early season 2. It didn't help that I read Josh Jackson and Anna Torv attempted to really play Peter and Olivia like siblings in the first season. So, yeah...
I've seen a few episodes of BSG and followed the plot via Fannish Osmosis but was scared away by the Bleak. I don't do well with constant bleakness!
it features a character just like that who then actually ended up coming back from nonspecial exile and getting the girl, while being stoic and standup and supportive the whole time.
Although that does make me a wee bit interested put that way!
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Warning, this is SO LONG (cus I was bored) that I'm actually gonna post in a new comment. Please don't feel obliged to respond in detail, or actually watch!
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2x04 - 2x05 - these are Sam's first episodes. To be honest, 2x05 is one of my less favourite episodes in the scheme of things, but it is the episode where Sam gets Nobly Left Behind.
2x18 - the episode where Sam makes an unexpected return to the Plot.
2x19 - 2x20 - the episodes where Kara goes BACK for Sam plus further developments in their relationship.
3x01 - 3x05 - a big arc that's emotionally important for Kara and Sam even though they spend most of it apart.
3x09 & 3x11 - 3x13 - I'm iffy on recommending these. They do feature Sam, which is no small thing since he's not a regular yet, but they're also kind of preoccupied with the love triangle/quadrangle which I kind of hated and more than that thought the show handled really badly. On the plus side, there's EPIC SHOW MYTHOLOGY going on in some of these episodes, including some stuff about Kara's Special Destiny and things and Sam being all super supportive about that, but eh, it's just not...that great a run of episodes in my opinion.
3x17 - super important Kara-centric mythology episode with a fair amount of Sam. Basically this is where Kara "dies".
3x18 - Skippable because there's not actually that much Sam, but it does have some powerful scenes about him dealing with Kara's "death".
3x19 - 3x20 - SUPER IMPORTANT SAM STUFF.
4x01 - Kara returns, more important Sam stuff. It's worth noting at this point that Sam is in every S4 episode, so if you really love him, just watch the whole run, but if you're still interested in skipping to the big moments, I'll try to outline them.
4x05 - Not essential but some nice Kara/Sam stuff.
4x10 - 4x11 - Important Kara/Sam stuff as well as important mythology stuff. It's pretty much as bleak as the show ever gets in the second ep here, though.
4x13 - 4x14 - again, most of this two-parter (which is actually pretty good), isn't really to do with Sam specifically, though there's something quite important that happens to him near the end, though nothing you couldn't pick up from the next episode.
4x15 - okay this is like, one of my favourite episodes ever, which I know sounds weird since it's slap bang in the middle of my least favourite part of the show ever. However, I think it's just genius. That said, it's definitely one for the hardcore fans as it's basically a 45 minute explanation. Mostly delivered by Sam. ;) And there's some awesome Kara/Sam stuff too. So basically, watch it, but if you've been skipping all over the place, I apologise, you may end up a bit confused cus it's very continuity heavy.
4x17 - This is where my personal canon kind of tails off and it's actually much more about Kara than it is about Sam, but it does heavily deal with her feelings for him.
4x18 - 4x20 - I feel very ambivalent about reccing these episodes. Basically because they were the episodes that took me from "Wow, 4.5 has been uneven and I really hate the implications of some of those eps," to "WTF SHOW, WTF, WTF, WTF". However, one of the few things I did like about them was what they did with Sam and that they very strongly stuck with Kara/Sam through to the end. And a lot of the stuff I hated (assassination of characters and themes I thought they were going for, a real "shut up, stop asking questions, and just be happy!" mentality) are things that, if you've been going for the Kara/Sam-centric version of the show, may not bother you in the slightest. So...I guess I'd say, make your own choice about these based on how you feel at the time.
I will say that they don't exactly walk off into the sunset together, but they do both stay committed to each other and experience endings that, while I think unfortunately fall into wider problematic patterns with the show's final season, taken alone can comfortably be described as transcendent.
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My thoughts were pretty similar on Altlivia killing the deaf guy. Who actually sort of confused me on whether he was taking part, and then turned around as a Good Citizen who takes evidence to the authorities? *waves it off*
But my fears that this might turn into the Relationship Triangle of Much Angst (or Quad. Poor stand-up, adorable Frank) with Altlivia as EVOL, are still there making me bite my fingernails with nervousness. :/
OMG, Anna Torv is a really good actress and it pains me that probably lots of people still think she's "wooden" just because they don't like the way she handles Olivia - a character that's supposed to be, well, wooden in some ways.
*flails* SHE WAS SO WONDERFUL, I DON'T EVEN. <3<3<3
I pretty much adore the way she's developed her character, and to me, all of the power in Olivia Dunham is just so apparent under the surface that I just have a hard time see what those lots of people...don't see, I suppose. In sort of the way each Six was always immediately recognizable to me the way Tricia Helfer played her, Anna Torv just does such amazing work with all the subtleties between the Olivias and the cross-over between them that I might really watch for that and nothing else at this point. Luckily, I actually really enjoyed the way they handled things in the last ep! ;)
OLIVIAAAAAA! Still much agreement from me on Peter/Olivia, though I'm ok with him as her subconscious there, because he is such an obvious difference from what she'd expect on the other side, that he'd be a good choice even without the romance angle. Though I don't doubt my wariness of them has a lot to do with BSG too. ;)
I don't think I knew how much I missed Charlie until Olivia got him BACK. Awwwwww.
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I agree with you for the most part on everything. Although I don't mind the Peter/Olivia romance personally... So far at least. If they do any sort of triangle/quadrangle I will be incredibly annoyed and disappointed. I am still holding out hope that they will be smarter than BSG in that front. But I guess I thought BSG was smarter than that too, so who knows!
Sometimes I am impressed with a lot of the things this show has done and then I can't help but let that make me nervous about all the ways it can screw things up!
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