beccatoria (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
beccatoria) wrote2006-11-05 04:40 pm
beccatoria) wrote2006-11-05 04:40 pm
Entry tags:
BSG: Torn
A day late because yesterday I was at an awesome wedding!
I loved a lot about this episode and am having deep thinky-thoughts about the whole awesome basestar subplot. I can't articulate them yet which is good because I have a whole post's worth of rant about Starbuck and Adama's way of dealing with her and why it was painfully painful to watch.
Adama actually did something dynamic and interesting this episode and I'm grateful for that, because it's been a while since he did something in a slightly unexpected way.
That said, I can't stand his method. It was painful to watch and I wanted to...hit him, I think. What he did to Kara was horrible to watch.
Now there are a couple of things that need to be said. Kara's totally off the rails, she's behaving in a totally unacceptable and dangerous way. She's terrifying and insane and needs a very heavy handed intervention to make her realise just how despicable she's become lately. If you don't believe I think this, check my past episode reactions. She's being ugly right now.
But, Adama, you don't get to deal with her like this without earning my contempt.
He neded to do something to maintain order and he needed to give Kara a wakeup call. But remember I've had this huge thing over the last few weeks that Kara needs a parent? That she needs someone who will love her and be tough with her while she's throwing her violent temper tantrum because she's six?
Well look, she just got exactly what I wanted for her in the most SCREWED UP WAY IMAGINABLE!
Adama responds to her with verbal and physical abuse. Who was the last person to control her by hitting her, making her believe she's a "cancer" and then making her feel completely unworthy of being loved? Oh yes, her mother.
(Aside: Does Adama even know about her mother? Possibly not. Maybe he doesn't quite understand what he's doing. Doesn't change the effect though.)
Let's talk about Anders for a second. I already said I had some issues with some of his choices (Kill Ellen! Don't kill Gaeta! Watch as I leave without using my vote to save him!) but I basically find the character interesting and found his response to Kara's demands that he leave refreshing. To see him not fight, to let her know just how unappealing she was by returning the dog tags without stooping to pettiness. Yeah that was interesting. And I figured, as her husband, he could step up and act as her parent-figure? Counsellor? Whichever, but it wasn't his responsibility. He does get to walk away and wait until she sorts it out.
You know what, Adama doesn't. Because he's her dad. And you know, arguements that no, he's her military commander, or, he's not really her dad, don't fly. Because he encouraged her to think of him as a parent. He told her that he thought of her as a daughter, but I never heard her tell him she thought of him as a father (though she clearly did). So yeah he encouraged this if he didn't outright instigate it. He shouldn't make those statements if he doesn't mean them.
Maybe we're seeing what happens when you try to have relationships like this within a military command structure (interesting implications for the obviously relaxed frat regs). I'm willing to accept that. But it doesn't get around the fact that Adama actively encouraged Starbuck to think of him as a parent. And she did.
And now Adama who she has always respected has treated her exactly the way her mom used to. That's going to reinforce everything Leoben said - that she wants to believe it's her fault, that she's the problem, that she's worthless.
"You were like a daughter to me. No more." What, because she's screwed up because she probably has post-traumatic stress disorder? Yeah, dude, you DO need to parent her, and you DO need to tell her how horrifically ugly she's become. But what you don't need to do is disown her because you've got a new surrogate daughter in Athena. You don't get to make threats like that because you're mad. You don't get to pretend to be someone's dad only when it's easy.
I think the problem is, Adama's a great commander, but a terrible father. Because he can be vicious towards his children. (Note: though striking a subordinate officer isn't great conduct either).
The thing is, as we can see by Kara's later actions, what he does helps her get her shit together.
Here's why:
What he did was start up the pattern again. He took on the role of Kara's mother, meaning Kara could slip back into her old personality. The one where she sublimates any pain and keeps everyone far, far away and never looses control unless she chooses to (which she does, see Tigh in the mini series, to keep up her swaggering image). That's why Flesh & Bone was so fascinating, that iron-tight control was at the forefront.
Adama really did make Starbuck feel terrible and make her want to do better, by tapping into all the "I'm unworthy of being loved, but I'll try anyway because everyone needs a parent," crap that her mom left her with.
She'll do okay for a while, I'm thinking. Because Adama bitchslapped her back to her familiar comfort zone, but all she's done is shove everything back inside.
Here's where things get totally frakked. What New Caprica did to Starbuck was a) leave her so confused and raw that it destroyed her sense of the familiar and her coping mechanisms and all the feelings were just...there and she didn't know how to cope with them. So she acted out like a kid. But b) for the first time, here's something crap that happened to her that wasn't her fault. That clearly couldn't be attributed to her and that Tigh and the Circle were only too happy to provide scapegoats for. It's juvenile and it's immature in terms of her response (because she's emotionally immature), but realising that crappy things happened to her for reasons that weren't her fault is an incredibly important thing for Kara to eventually grok. I worry that that's just been completely undermined as the person she had the most love for and faith in just confirmed all of her worst fears in a moment of anger and vindictiveness.
In a frakked up way, she was growing emotionally when she was treating everyone else like crap. Or at least, she had the potential to because she hadn't locked everything up again yet. She was struggling to understand, "None of this was my fault," with the unfortunate side-effect of treating everyone else like it was theirs. Now she's back to, "I'm a screw-up and it's my fault," and that's something she knows how to deal with very well.
I wonder about her reunion with Kacey at the end. I loved it because I thought that the kid had been Deus Ex Machina'd away. But it did make me realise that Starbuck has successfully alienated everyone she once considered family (with the possible exception of Helo, but he wasn't interacting with her here either so I can't tell). Everyone. There literally is no one who'd come hug her if she was a ball of goo on the floor. (Yup, did that to herself, but not the point of this paragraph). Kacey's the new Anders. She's the only one who's going to look at Kara and smile and see her as someone good and jump at her with a hug.
What Kara needs most is a parent who offers actual unconditional love. What she's got is a two year old friend, who seems to be doing that in her dad's absence.
Sorry this is long. I know that I'm probably reading too much into it. I can't help it. It's what grabbed me. That scene, the voice in my head was, "God, don't hit her, just don't hit - ...right."
None of this is intended to excuse the fact that Kara almost murdered a man and didn't care if he was innocent or guilty. None of this excuses the fact that she's turning into a monster. None of this is supposed to be an arguement for childhood abuse absolving you of all further crimes. But it might be why you commit some of them. It's the arguement from that film, The Cell, that I found really interesting. Does childhood abuse excuse you from attrocities? No. But it might be why and it can't be ignored if you want to make someone whole again.
And in the context of Kara as a character - if we look at her and what she needs to be whole again - her childhood abuse is clearly the root of part of her behaviour. Leoben deliberately drew on it, as he has since he first met her.
It's not an excuse. It's a reason. And it's the reason that having her father who's opinion she trusts, behave like her mother who abused her, can never, ever yield permanently positive results. It just can't. I'll weep if it does. It's so fucked.
I know there's a lot of people who dislike the childhood abuse line for Kara. It is so often a telegraphed excuse on TV. Oh, they were abused! Don't hate them! But here...they're showing her so ugly and damaged because of it. I respect that. This shit does damage people. Some people, it makes into bad people.
Adama, start acting like a real dad or apologise for telling her you thought of her as a daughter.
That's all, folks!
I loved a lot about this episode and am having deep thinky-thoughts about the whole awesome basestar subplot. I can't articulate them yet which is good because I have a whole post's worth of rant about Starbuck and Adama's way of dealing with her and why it was painfully painful to watch.
Adama actually did something dynamic and interesting this episode and I'm grateful for that, because it's been a while since he did something in a slightly unexpected way.
That said, I can't stand his method. It was painful to watch and I wanted to...hit him, I think. What he did to Kara was horrible to watch.
Now there are a couple of things that need to be said. Kara's totally off the rails, she's behaving in a totally unacceptable and dangerous way. She's terrifying and insane and needs a very heavy handed intervention to make her realise just how despicable she's become lately. If you don't believe I think this, check my past episode reactions. She's being ugly right now.
But, Adama, you don't get to deal with her like this without earning my contempt.
He neded to do something to maintain order and he needed to give Kara a wakeup call. But remember I've had this huge thing over the last few weeks that Kara needs a parent? That she needs someone who will love her and be tough with her while she's throwing her violent temper tantrum because she's six?
Well look, she just got exactly what I wanted for her in the most SCREWED UP WAY IMAGINABLE!
Adama responds to her with verbal and physical abuse. Who was the last person to control her by hitting her, making her believe she's a "cancer" and then making her feel completely unworthy of being loved? Oh yes, her mother.
(Aside: Does Adama even know about her mother? Possibly not. Maybe he doesn't quite understand what he's doing. Doesn't change the effect though.)
Let's talk about Anders for a second. I already said I had some issues with some of his choices (Kill Ellen! Don't kill Gaeta! Watch as I leave without using my vote to save him!) but I basically find the character interesting and found his response to Kara's demands that he leave refreshing. To see him not fight, to let her know just how unappealing she was by returning the dog tags without stooping to pettiness. Yeah that was interesting. And I figured, as her husband, he could step up and act as her parent-figure? Counsellor? Whichever, but it wasn't his responsibility. He does get to walk away and wait until she sorts it out.
You know what, Adama doesn't. Because he's her dad. And you know, arguements that no, he's her military commander, or, he's not really her dad, don't fly. Because he encouraged her to think of him as a parent. He told her that he thought of her as a daughter, but I never heard her tell him she thought of him as a father (though she clearly did). So yeah he encouraged this if he didn't outright instigate it. He shouldn't make those statements if he doesn't mean them.
Maybe we're seeing what happens when you try to have relationships like this within a military command structure (interesting implications for the obviously relaxed frat regs). I'm willing to accept that. But it doesn't get around the fact that Adama actively encouraged Starbuck to think of him as a parent. And she did.
And now Adama who she has always respected has treated her exactly the way her mom used to. That's going to reinforce everything Leoben said - that she wants to believe it's her fault, that she's the problem, that she's worthless.
"You were like a daughter to me. No more." What, because she's screwed up because she probably has post-traumatic stress disorder? Yeah, dude, you DO need to parent her, and you DO need to tell her how horrifically ugly she's become. But what you don't need to do is disown her because you've got a new surrogate daughter in Athena. You don't get to make threats like that because you're mad. You don't get to pretend to be someone's dad only when it's easy.
I think the problem is, Adama's a great commander, but a terrible father. Because he can be vicious towards his children. (Note: though striking a subordinate officer isn't great conduct either).
The thing is, as we can see by Kara's later actions, what he does helps her get her shit together.
Here's why:
What he did was start up the pattern again. He took on the role of Kara's mother, meaning Kara could slip back into her old personality. The one where she sublimates any pain and keeps everyone far, far away and never looses control unless she chooses to (which she does, see Tigh in the mini series, to keep up her swaggering image). That's why Flesh & Bone was so fascinating, that iron-tight control was at the forefront.
Adama really did make Starbuck feel terrible and make her want to do better, by tapping into all the "I'm unworthy of being loved, but I'll try anyway because everyone needs a parent," crap that her mom left her with.
She'll do okay for a while, I'm thinking. Because Adama bitchslapped her back to her familiar comfort zone, but all she's done is shove everything back inside.
Here's where things get totally frakked. What New Caprica did to Starbuck was a) leave her so confused and raw that it destroyed her sense of the familiar and her coping mechanisms and all the feelings were just...there and she didn't know how to cope with them. So she acted out like a kid. But b) for the first time, here's something crap that happened to her that wasn't her fault. That clearly couldn't be attributed to her and that Tigh and the Circle were only too happy to provide scapegoats for. It's juvenile and it's immature in terms of her response (because she's emotionally immature), but realising that crappy things happened to her for reasons that weren't her fault is an incredibly important thing for Kara to eventually grok. I worry that that's just been completely undermined as the person she had the most love for and faith in just confirmed all of her worst fears in a moment of anger and vindictiveness.
In a frakked up way, she was growing emotionally when she was treating everyone else like crap. Or at least, she had the potential to because she hadn't locked everything up again yet. She was struggling to understand, "None of this was my fault," with the unfortunate side-effect of treating everyone else like it was theirs. Now she's back to, "I'm a screw-up and it's my fault," and that's something she knows how to deal with very well.
I wonder about her reunion with Kacey at the end. I loved it because I thought that the kid had been Deus Ex Machina'd away. But it did make me realise that Starbuck has successfully alienated everyone she once considered family (with the possible exception of Helo, but he wasn't interacting with her here either so I can't tell). Everyone. There literally is no one who'd come hug her if she was a ball of goo on the floor. (Yup, did that to herself, but not the point of this paragraph). Kacey's the new Anders. She's the only one who's going to look at Kara and smile and see her as someone good and jump at her with a hug.
What Kara needs most is a parent who offers actual unconditional love. What she's got is a two year old friend, who seems to be doing that in her dad's absence.
Sorry this is long. I know that I'm probably reading too much into it. I can't help it. It's what grabbed me. That scene, the voice in my head was, "God, don't hit her, just don't hit - ...right."
None of this is intended to excuse the fact that Kara almost murdered a man and didn't care if he was innocent or guilty. None of this excuses the fact that she's turning into a monster. None of this is supposed to be an arguement for childhood abuse absolving you of all further crimes. But it might be why you commit some of them. It's the arguement from that film, The Cell, that I found really interesting. Does childhood abuse excuse you from attrocities? No. But it might be why and it can't be ignored if you want to make someone whole again.
And in the context of Kara as a character - if we look at her and what she needs to be whole again - her childhood abuse is clearly the root of part of her behaviour. Leoben deliberately drew on it, as he has since he first met her.
It's not an excuse. It's a reason. And it's the reason that having her father who's opinion she trusts, behave like her mother who abused her, can never, ever yield permanently positive results. It just can't. I'll weep if it does. It's so fucked.
I know there's a lot of people who dislike the childhood abuse line for Kara. It is so often a telegraphed excuse on TV. Oh, they were abused! Don't hate them! But here...they're showing her so ugly and damaged because of it. I respect that. This shit does damage people. Some people, it makes into bad people.
Adama, start acting like a real dad or apologise for telling her you thought of her as a daughter.
That's all, folks!
no subject
Anders actions, OTOH, I see as unforgivable. He could have given her space AND said "I'm not that easy to get rid of, I'll be here when you're ready." Instead, he was cruel. Giving the tags back? *shudder*
I'm willing to give ground on this. It's certainly a solid platform to work from. I think we see it differently because I don't believe he's leaving forever - you know, to me, the tags were a sign to Kara that she'd stepped over a line without stooping to personal threats or violence. But you're right that we have no proof that he's not gone forever and he did leave pretty quickly. Then again, I also think it was maybe the smartest thing he could have done.
As in, I think given what happened to her, the last thing Kara needs is a husband, and the thing she most needs is a parent. So I'm not necessarily giving Anders credit for his actions because perhaps they were for totally different reasons - maybe he didn't know this - but I do think that he would have struggled to get through to her.
Adama, other subtextual relationships aside, is her boss. And his loyalty is to the fleet, above anyone he may "favor". He got through to her the only way he could,
But the problem is, even as her boss I don't condone violence as a method of control. Also, I'd argue that when you say things like, "You're like a daughter to me," that aspect of the relationship ceases to be subtextual. The other problem is that I didn't necessarily see his behaviour towards Kara as solely based in loyalty to the fleet. It was personal because with Adama, everything's personal. The favouritism aspect is coming into play here because if Kara was Kat or Racetrack or even Helo, he couldn't have used the "I'll disown you," card - he couldn't have handled the situation that way, and he probably wouldn't have tried (though I'm sure he'd have laid the smack down!)
and it was very ugly and harsh, but- he needed his warrior back. And he got it.
This is really the part of the whole thing that fascinates me. Because you're absolutely right on this. His actions do ground Kara and turn her back into a warrior. And he does need that. The fleet needs it. In a really twisted sense, Kara needs it. But I just find the methods and the possible subtext of why, totally dark and fascinating. Which I actually really respect that if it's intentional, and if it's not, as long as they never let me know that, I'll still be happy to sit here in my corner awed by the fact that they went there!
Anyways, thanks for commenting - I always love to get comments and it's goot to be challenged on your opinions. :)
Also, FWIW? You were the total opposite of rude in Jenny O's Lj.
Thank you, that's worth quite a lot because honestly? That reaction I was really not expecting and kind of...threw me. So I really appreciate knowing my comments didn't come across that way to others. :)
no subject
Nah, there were quite a few people with "WTF?!" reactions, I just happen to have a big mouth and don't mind saying it in your LJ. ;)
You're right of course, about the Adama/Starbuck not being SUBtext at this point, in the strictest sense. I misused the term. What I meant was...hmm, that the familial relationship comes secondary to the military relationship. Or at least, it ought to, and in times like this, HAS to. And so you are also right about him playing the "you're not my daughter anymore" card being the cruelest thing he could have possibly done. Also, apparently, the only thing he could have done to make her snap to it. Damn, they are great characters.
Yea. I love this show too, man. Not one easy answer in sight, and no one is a White Hat, and by the end of last night's ep, I didn't even know who the hell I was rooting for anymore. YAY for smart TV!
I HOPE Anders comes back. But I did see his leaving as far more permanent than you obviously did. I guess we shall have to wait and see what the writers intended.
In any case, nice to meet you. :)