beccatoria (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
beccatoria) wrote2009-01-24 09:14 pm
beccatoria) wrote2009-01-24 09:14 pm
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BSG: A Disquiet Follows my Soul
Well, this is gonna be a weird one to write up. I basically watch BSG for the mythology and robotic and philosophical stuff and this was largely about the civilian fleet and their political struggles and character I don't care much about (Adama, Zarek, Gaeta). This isn't a criticism, because it's a valid part of the show and it's a good thing that the show isn't forgetting about it.
I actually think it's also a very compelling story. The sort of complex civilian versus military storytelling that we often got in season one and then kind of lost when RDM didn't have the time to flesh out the civilian fleet and they often turned out as strawmen for the episode of the week. (I'm looking at you Demand Peace. I'm looking at you Dana Delaney. I'm looking at you Sagittaron fundamentalists.)
The basic issue here is a very good one. The Fleet don't trust the cylons. But these cylons genuinely are the only group of cylons they have even the tiniest bit of common ground with - after all, they fought with them, destroyed their own resurrection hub with no hope of their species surviving over the course of generations, and are just as frakked as the rest of them if Cavil shows up. But. They're cylons. They recanted late in the game; they're dangerous; the people are angry. Why should they care?
And this volatile, important situation is being manipulated all over the place by Zarek, who I still can't really get a handle on except to say that while I'm sure he genuinely believes the cylons are dangerous, I also believe that this is a power play to him; a way to punch the Man in the nose and put in place his own vision of What Should Be. That's the only consistant thing Zarek's ever done - ignored the practical issues of the cylon threat to turn them and the destruction of the Colonies into an idealistic issue about reshaping Colonial society.
And on the other hand, this volatile, important situation is being exacerbated through nigh-on criminal negligence at the hands of Adama and especially Laura Roslin.
I mean, Adama handles things poorly. It's totally in character for him to make things worse by just refusing to even contemplate relieving Tigh of duty because now that he's sorted out his issues with his BFF everyone else should fall in line. Of course he's going to send in marines to arrest a president/acting president he doesn't like. Of course he's going to realise the problem with Laura and then deal with it by trying to pawn off everyone else until he can deal with her in the way he thinks is best, which is actually known as, in phase one, gently hoping a few appeals to her sense of duty will fix the situation and, in phase two, enabling her.
But Laura. Oh dear.
Don't worry, flist, I still want to smack Adama in the mouth and I still love Laura. But really, the woman is having a total breakdown. Yes, partly this is due to the medical euphoria she's experiencing, but she's made a very conscious decision to ride that wave and completely ignore everything that's happening around her.
She's not running around the ship and kissing admirals and shunning her treatments because she's suddenly discovered some great freedom and love of life in her final days. This isn't some justifiable "right to live a little" because it's someone else's turn to carry the ball.
Remember Dee? And how, once she knew she was going to die, she became superhappy and started having this perfect day and helping people and being flirty and delightful?
Laura just has longer before the inevitable death occurs.
Laura is having a perfect day because she's going to die. And she's doing it at the expense of the Fleet and her people because it's self-destructive and Laura Roslin wants to destroy herself, and her image. Bill Adama gets drunk and actually starts reading emo poetry.
Laura Roslin starts jogging around the Battlestar in a terminally ill condition metaphorically yelling, "LET THEM EAT CAKE!" because she's acting out. Because she's having a breakdown and has cunningly disguised it as some kind of liberation so Adama will be mostly blind to it and blind to the rest because it inovles that sex he's wanted forever and because he's acting out too by becoming an alcoholic. I assume he was constantly brushing his teeth to get rid of the alcohol on his breath.
For people who are A/R 'shippers, and in an attempt to be respectful of canon, I'm not trying to say that the things she's doing aren't things she secretly wants to do. I'm not saying she doesn't want to sleep with Adama (although I really would rather not have seen it).
But doing so now, in this manner, at this time? She's not doing it for healthy reasons. She's doing it because she's so broken and so destructive she's actually trying to do the one thing that was antithetical to her before: put herself first. And not only that, because everyone must do that sometimes, but put herself first at the expense of her people.
I'm not really angry with her. Even though she's doing a terrible job right now and even though the reason I love her so much is that she doesn't behave this way when so many people would. I guess because after four years of not behaving that way, I figure she's earned this character arc because I'm convinced it won't last. It's a side of Laura we haven't seen, that maybe we need to. Like how before Baltar's interrogation, we'd never seen her just lose it and give in to rage. We've never seen her totally faithless and self-destructive.
And yes, I confess that as an anti-A/R shipper, I do take some solace in the fact that my most honest reading of this situation is that she's using sex-with-Bill as a form of self-destructive suicidal insanity.
*must not make Bill macro: I like mah wives like I like mah dautrs: SUICIDAL YAYZ!*
Finally, at least she had the presence of mind to offer to resign the Presidency. But much like Lee had to be president because Adama hates Zarek, so to much Laura remain president while clearly unfit for office because Adama hates Zarek.
I missed Kara, but I did love her scene with Gaeta. I mean, he was picking a crazy fight and she was all kinds of offensive, but I thought both of them played it really brilliantly until Gaeta had to say, "reckoning," because I find that word very cheesy. Like, if the Transformers sequel wasn't called "The Rise of the Fallen," it probably would have been called, "The Fall of the Reckoning," or something.
But anyway, the point, the scene. Kara's problem has always been that when someone baits her, and she knows it, she sees it as an excuse to let fly and not disappoint them because she was baited. It's still her problem, and it's still awesome to watch. I think just because both of those characters were so angry and hurt.
There was a lot of good world-building in this episode, actually. I found it gave me far more of a feel for the state of the Fleet than the last one which was all high drama and people punching each other in corridors. But...yeah. Kara and Gaeta in the mess hall was a macrocosm of all the hurt in the world and I really liked that moment.
I just wish we had more of Kara's crazy space destiny and the Opera House and stuff. But I'm not worried. I know we'll get back to the crazy story of the Religious Women after we're done with the boring story of the Militant Men (I'm being harsh; as I said, I actually found this episode quite interesting, it just didn't tear into my heart like it would have if it were focused on other themes).
I missed Tory and Sam. I imagine they're on the basestar since it seems Tyrol has also been at least partly staying there/spending time there. Selfishly I wish we'd seen more of them integrating into the cylon fleet, and those discussions where Tyrol convinced them that Adama was a man of his word, etc. I guess I understand why it was cut. It's probably better for the show overall to occasionally pull back from a cylon-o-centric focus, but it's not better for me. ;)
The idea of the cylon being full citizens and getting a seat on the quorum is AWESOME. I mean, don't get me wrong, I totally understand why the ENTIRE FLEET would go crazy about that, but just, from my perspective, it's awesome and I hope it happens.
They've really swapped Tyrol and Tigh haven't they? They started S4 with Tigh as the widow with huge guilt and nothing really, except his insanity and his guilt to keep him going, while Tyrol had a wife and child and acceptance and respect in his work. Now Tyrol's lost Cally, his job, and also Nick, while Tigh has Caprica and Flipper and an important job despite his cylonicity.
I actually have severe problems with retconning Nicky's paternity. Just from a character point of view, Cally was SO disturbingly in love with the Chief, that I find it hard to buy she had an affair with Hot Dog after they were together for so short a time. Weirdly I'd prefer she was blind drunk and barely remembered it even though that has its own set of dodgy ramifications.
Secondly, it now makes her attempts to airlock Nicky and herself make SO MUCH LESS SENSE and that was...previously such an impressive and painful piece of BSG. Post-partum and psychotic Cally trying to deal with the fact her son was half what she hated, that she loved him so completely while hating half of what he was, that she could never actually get rid of that either because he's her son, just, all of it... That's why she numbly walked down to the airlock. That's why she took Nicky. It never struck me as her thinking that two years of marriage to a cylon and loving a cylon were worth ending her life over. It was the crazy complication Nicky represented, and now, I don't know what to think. It seems so...sick? I don't want to judge when she was clearly mentally ill and panicking, but I really don't understand why her instinct wasn't to tell someone.
I guess it just completely undermines the construction of that scene and takes Cally from horrific but sympathetic to WTF?
I'm also just plain sad that Nicky's not a hybrid. I liked the multiple hybrids. Hera is still important because she's still the first. I wouldn't have been upset if Nicky didn't have a big destiny like her, and there are also a bajillion ways to handwave his being different because he's half final five cylon not a Hera-style hybrid.
Also, couldn't we have somehow changed it so that Cally honestly believed that Nicky was the Chief's kid? Like she slept with Hot Dog that one time, but Nicky looks so much like Galen that she never really gave that much thought and always figured he must be her husband's son, or something? That would at least keep her characterisation in Ties that Bind intact, and it's not like they needed Cottle to already know about Nicky. He came in with a medical condition, they could have run tests on Tyrol to see if he could like, potentially be able to donate a kidney when he's older or something and found out that way.
This just makes Cally a deceptive cheater in a series where there are already two other marriages with women who are, apparently, serial cheaters (Kara and Ellen, though I'm still not convinced Sam's comment at Lee wasn't some form of trash-talking/damage control).
It's not a storyline I'm necessarily averse to, because I think in the case of the Tighs it works well, but three times guys? It starts to look skeezy. And I start to wonder what RDM's obsession with romanticising relationships where the guy is mad faithful in love while the girl sleeps around is all about.
Basically I'm just disappointed. I liked that the boundries were blurring and getting confused and there were multiple hybrids and such and now there are fewere and that makes me sad.
Silver linings include:
1) If they don't drop the storyline faster than something that has to do with Caprica Six, and we just never see Nicky or Hot Dog again, NICKY HAS TWO DADDIES! Okay, they're not the two daddies I would choose (that would be Chief and Sam) but I WILL TAKE WHAT I CAN GET.
2) BSG's continued destruction of the nuclear family as a healthy default for domestic stability and happiness continues to entertain me. And I say this as someone who comes from a very happy nuclear family - I'm not trying to break it down personally, I just like that in BSG all the happiest families are extended, adopted messy things and even the one nuclear family we do have - the Agathons - have a daughter with too many other surrogate mothers to count, and are themselves a threat to the traditional nuclear family of the Galacticaverse by virtue of being half-robot.
But I'm still feeling sulky.
To talk about the robotic baby that apparently still IS a robotic baby: FLIPPER! HOW I MISSED YOU! I AM MILDLY DISAPPOINTED YOU ARE APPARENTLY A BOY BUT WHATEVER.
ISHAY. I'M LOOKING AT YOU. YOU BETTER NOT HURT THAT ADORABLE BALL OF INCESTUOUS ROBOTIC FETUS OR I WILL CUT SOMETHING. PROBABLY YOU.
No, really. I'm hoping that ominous shot was just a set up for PERIL which in turn may mean some actual screen time for Caprica Six beyond like, two minutes every four or five episodes. But Show, listen, I will stay with you through much, but if you kill Flipper, I will cry. I will cry and it will be YOUR FAULT and they will not be the good kind of tears either.
As to the Caprica/Tigh scene, I'd probably have more of an issue with the whole fact that Tigh is, apparently, suddenly on board with Flipper and being all hand-holdy and not-chokey with Caprica because I don't want that relationship to just magically work. But I'm willing to go with it for the following reasons:
1) While I hope she stays dead, I really think Ellen will probably be back and at that point, HILARIOUS HIJINCKS may ensue. So like, I can handle things being unrealistically good right now if it's a build up to LATER.
2) Caprica Six did not get dumped. This would be painful for me.
3) I kind of can sort of maybe see it if I squint, in that, while I think Saul thinks Ellen is forever dead, the fact that she was a cylon is probably, in some ways, a weight off his mind. Since in addition to killing her, he was also wrestling with his betrayal of her in terms of species. I think there's some peace to be found there in terms of his ability to begin to accept - at least a little - that he is a cylon. So I can kind of believe he's in a better place right now.
4) It brought the Cottle.
5) I am ashamed to admit, that entire scene was kind of adorable. I just want to smush them all together and make kissing noises, so I'm grateful that reasons 1 - 3 have given me an excuse to just go with it for this episode and not worry about the Wider Statements It Is Making.
But srsly, Ishay. Join Gaeta's revolution if you must but I WAS NOT KIDDING ABOUT THE KNIFE, BITCH.
Finally, Gaeta. You do know how to pick your presidential boyfriends, sweetheart. I really...I don't know what's gonna happen when the exact thing that happened with Baltar happens again but this time Gaeta can't console himself in the knowledge that he was secretly on the right side all along. I'm probably a bad person for not caring more.
I feel bad for having nothing to say about Lee but basically all he did this episode was wander around.
I actually think it's also a very compelling story. The sort of complex civilian versus military storytelling that we often got in season one and then kind of lost when RDM didn't have the time to flesh out the civilian fleet and they often turned out as strawmen for the episode of the week. (I'm looking at you Demand Peace. I'm looking at you Dana Delaney. I'm looking at you Sagittaron fundamentalists.)
The basic issue here is a very good one. The Fleet don't trust the cylons. But these cylons genuinely are the only group of cylons they have even the tiniest bit of common ground with - after all, they fought with them, destroyed their own resurrection hub with no hope of their species surviving over the course of generations, and are just as frakked as the rest of them if Cavil shows up. But. They're cylons. They recanted late in the game; they're dangerous; the people are angry. Why should they care?
And this volatile, important situation is being manipulated all over the place by Zarek, who I still can't really get a handle on except to say that while I'm sure he genuinely believes the cylons are dangerous, I also believe that this is a power play to him; a way to punch the Man in the nose and put in place his own vision of What Should Be. That's the only consistant thing Zarek's ever done - ignored the practical issues of the cylon threat to turn them and the destruction of the Colonies into an idealistic issue about reshaping Colonial society.
And on the other hand, this volatile, important situation is being exacerbated through nigh-on criminal negligence at the hands of Adama and especially Laura Roslin.
I mean, Adama handles things poorly. It's totally in character for him to make things worse by just refusing to even contemplate relieving Tigh of duty because now that he's sorted out his issues with his BFF everyone else should fall in line. Of course he's going to send in marines to arrest a president/acting president he doesn't like. Of course he's going to realise the problem with Laura and then deal with it by trying to pawn off everyone else until he can deal with her in the way he thinks is best, which is actually known as, in phase one, gently hoping a few appeals to her sense of duty will fix the situation and, in phase two, enabling her.
But Laura. Oh dear.
Don't worry, flist, I still want to smack Adama in the mouth and I still love Laura. But really, the woman is having a total breakdown. Yes, partly this is due to the medical euphoria she's experiencing, but she's made a very conscious decision to ride that wave and completely ignore everything that's happening around her.
She's not running around the ship and kissing admirals and shunning her treatments because she's suddenly discovered some great freedom and love of life in her final days. This isn't some justifiable "right to live a little" because it's someone else's turn to carry the ball.
Remember Dee? And how, once she knew she was going to die, she became superhappy and started having this perfect day and helping people and being flirty and delightful?
Laura just has longer before the inevitable death occurs.
Laura is having a perfect day because she's going to die. And she's doing it at the expense of the Fleet and her people because it's self-destructive and Laura Roslin wants to destroy herself, and her image. Bill Adama gets drunk and actually starts reading emo poetry.
Laura Roslin starts jogging around the Battlestar in a terminally ill condition metaphorically yelling, "LET THEM EAT CAKE!" because she's acting out. Because she's having a breakdown and has cunningly disguised it as some kind of liberation so Adama will be mostly blind to it and blind to the rest because it inovles that sex he's wanted forever and because he's acting out too by becoming an alcoholic. I assume he was constantly brushing his teeth to get rid of the alcohol on his breath.
For people who are A/R 'shippers, and in an attempt to be respectful of canon, I'm not trying to say that the things she's doing aren't things she secretly wants to do. I'm not saying she doesn't want to sleep with Adama (although I really would rather not have seen it).
But doing so now, in this manner, at this time? She's not doing it for healthy reasons. She's doing it because she's so broken and so destructive she's actually trying to do the one thing that was antithetical to her before: put herself first. And not only that, because everyone must do that sometimes, but put herself first at the expense of her people.
I'm not really angry with her. Even though she's doing a terrible job right now and even though the reason I love her so much is that she doesn't behave this way when so many people would. I guess because after four years of not behaving that way, I figure she's earned this character arc because I'm convinced it won't last. It's a side of Laura we haven't seen, that maybe we need to. Like how before Baltar's interrogation, we'd never seen her just lose it and give in to rage. We've never seen her totally faithless and self-destructive.
And yes, I confess that as an anti-A/R shipper, I do take some solace in the fact that my most honest reading of this situation is that she's using sex-with-Bill as a form of self-destructive suicidal insanity.
*must not make Bill macro: I like mah wives like I like mah dautrs: SUICIDAL YAYZ!*
Finally, at least she had the presence of mind to offer to resign the Presidency. But much like Lee had to be president because Adama hates Zarek, so to much Laura remain president while clearly unfit for office because Adama hates Zarek.
I missed Kara, but I did love her scene with Gaeta. I mean, he was picking a crazy fight and she was all kinds of offensive, but I thought both of them played it really brilliantly until Gaeta had to say, "reckoning," because I find that word very cheesy. Like, if the Transformers sequel wasn't called "The Rise of the Fallen," it probably would have been called, "The Fall of the Reckoning," or something.
But anyway, the point, the scene. Kara's problem has always been that when someone baits her, and she knows it, she sees it as an excuse to let fly and not disappoint them because she was baited. It's still her problem, and it's still awesome to watch. I think just because both of those characters were so angry and hurt.
There was a lot of good world-building in this episode, actually. I found it gave me far more of a feel for the state of the Fleet than the last one which was all high drama and people punching each other in corridors. But...yeah. Kara and Gaeta in the mess hall was a macrocosm of all the hurt in the world and I really liked that moment.
I just wish we had more of Kara's crazy space destiny and the Opera House and stuff. But I'm not worried. I know we'll get back to the crazy story of the Religious Women after we're done with the boring story of the Militant Men (I'm being harsh; as I said, I actually found this episode quite interesting, it just didn't tear into my heart like it would have if it were focused on other themes).
I missed Tory and Sam. I imagine they're on the basestar since it seems Tyrol has also been at least partly staying there/spending time there. Selfishly I wish we'd seen more of them integrating into the cylon fleet, and those discussions where Tyrol convinced them that Adama was a man of his word, etc. I guess I understand why it was cut. It's probably better for the show overall to occasionally pull back from a cylon-o-centric focus, but it's not better for me. ;)
The idea of the cylon being full citizens and getting a seat on the quorum is AWESOME. I mean, don't get me wrong, I totally understand why the ENTIRE FLEET would go crazy about that, but just, from my perspective, it's awesome and I hope it happens.
They've really swapped Tyrol and Tigh haven't they? They started S4 with Tigh as the widow with huge guilt and nothing really, except his insanity and his guilt to keep him going, while Tyrol had a wife and child and acceptance and respect in his work. Now Tyrol's lost Cally, his job, and also Nick, while Tigh has Caprica and Flipper and an important job despite his cylonicity.
I actually have severe problems with retconning Nicky's paternity. Just from a character point of view, Cally was SO disturbingly in love with the Chief, that I find it hard to buy she had an affair with Hot Dog after they were together for so short a time. Weirdly I'd prefer she was blind drunk and barely remembered it even though that has its own set of dodgy ramifications.
Secondly, it now makes her attempts to airlock Nicky and herself make SO MUCH LESS SENSE and that was...previously such an impressive and painful piece of BSG. Post-partum and psychotic Cally trying to deal with the fact her son was half what she hated, that she loved him so completely while hating half of what he was, that she could never actually get rid of that either because he's her son, just, all of it... That's why she numbly walked down to the airlock. That's why she took Nicky. It never struck me as her thinking that two years of marriage to a cylon and loving a cylon were worth ending her life over. It was the crazy complication Nicky represented, and now, I don't know what to think. It seems so...sick? I don't want to judge when she was clearly mentally ill and panicking, but I really don't understand why her instinct wasn't to tell someone.
I guess it just completely undermines the construction of that scene and takes Cally from horrific but sympathetic to WTF?
I'm also just plain sad that Nicky's not a hybrid. I liked the multiple hybrids. Hera is still important because she's still the first. I wouldn't have been upset if Nicky didn't have a big destiny like her, and there are also a bajillion ways to handwave his being different because he's half final five cylon not a Hera-style hybrid.
Also, couldn't we have somehow changed it so that Cally honestly believed that Nicky was the Chief's kid? Like she slept with Hot Dog that one time, but Nicky looks so much like Galen that she never really gave that much thought and always figured he must be her husband's son, or something? That would at least keep her characterisation in Ties that Bind intact, and it's not like they needed Cottle to already know about Nicky. He came in with a medical condition, they could have run tests on Tyrol to see if he could like, potentially be able to donate a kidney when he's older or something and found out that way.
This just makes Cally a deceptive cheater in a series where there are already two other marriages with women who are, apparently, serial cheaters (Kara and Ellen, though I'm still not convinced Sam's comment at Lee wasn't some form of trash-talking/damage control).
It's not a storyline I'm necessarily averse to, because I think in the case of the Tighs it works well, but three times guys? It starts to look skeezy. And I start to wonder what RDM's obsession with romanticising relationships where the guy is mad faithful in love while the girl sleeps around is all about.
Basically I'm just disappointed. I liked that the boundries were blurring and getting confused and there were multiple hybrids and such and now there are fewere and that makes me sad.
Silver linings include:
1) If they don't drop the storyline faster than something that has to do with Caprica Six, and we just never see Nicky or Hot Dog again, NICKY HAS TWO DADDIES! Okay, they're not the two daddies I would choose (that would be Chief and Sam) but I WILL TAKE WHAT I CAN GET.
2) BSG's continued destruction of the nuclear family as a healthy default for domestic stability and happiness continues to entertain me. And I say this as someone who comes from a very happy nuclear family - I'm not trying to break it down personally, I just like that in BSG all the happiest families are extended, adopted messy things and even the one nuclear family we do have - the Agathons - have a daughter with too many other surrogate mothers to count, and are themselves a threat to the traditional nuclear family of the Galacticaverse by virtue of being half-robot.
But I'm still feeling sulky.
To talk about the robotic baby that apparently still IS a robotic baby: FLIPPER! HOW I MISSED YOU! I AM MILDLY DISAPPOINTED YOU ARE APPARENTLY A BOY BUT WHATEVER.
ISHAY. I'M LOOKING AT YOU. YOU BETTER NOT HURT THAT ADORABLE BALL OF INCESTUOUS ROBOTIC FETUS OR I WILL CUT SOMETHING. PROBABLY YOU.
No, really. I'm hoping that ominous shot was just a set up for PERIL which in turn may mean some actual screen time for Caprica Six beyond like, two minutes every four or five episodes. But Show, listen, I will stay with you through much, but if you kill Flipper, I will cry. I will cry and it will be YOUR FAULT and they will not be the good kind of tears either.
As to the Caprica/Tigh scene, I'd probably have more of an issue with the whole fact that Tigh is, apparently, suddenly on board with Flipper and being all hand-holdy and not-chokey with Caprica because I don't want that relationship to just magically work. But I'm willing to go with it for the following reasons:
1) While I hope she stays dead, I really think Ellen will probably be back and at that point, HILARIOUS HIJINCKS may ensue. So like, I can handle things being unrealistically good right now if it's a build up to LATER.
2) Caprica Six did not get dumped. This would be painful for me.
3) I kind of can sort of maybe see it if I squint, in that, while I think Saul thinks Ellen is forever dead, the fact that she was a cylon is probably, in some ways, a weight off his mind. Since in addition to killing her, he was also wrestling with his betrayal of her in terms of species. I think there's some peace to be found there in terms of his ability to begin to accept - at least a little - that he is a cylon. So I can kind of believe he's in a better place right now.
4) It brought the Cottle.
5) I am ashamed to admit, that entire scene was kind of adorable. I just want to smush them all together and make kissing noises, so I'm grateful that reasons 1 - 3 have given me an excuse to just go with it for this episode and not worry about the Wider Statements It Is Making.
But srsly, Ishay. Join Gaeta's revolution if you must but I WAS NOT KIDDING ABOUT THE KNIFE, BITCH.
Finally, Gaeta. You do know how to pick your presidential boyfriends, sweetheart. I really...I don't know what's gonna happen when the exact thing that happened with Baltar happens again but this time Gaeta can't console himself in the knowledge that he was secretly on the right side all along. I'm probably a bad person for not caring more.
I feel bad for having nothing to say about Lee but basically all he did this episode was wander around.
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Oh good...I can watch it at your house! :)
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Laura is having a perfect day because she's going to die. And she's doing it at the expense of the Fleet and her people because it's self-destructive
Yes (and I think the burst of renewed health/rejection of medication is usually a sign that death is right around the frakking corner--yet I'm sure she's around till the finale...I wish we knew how much time is elapsing on Galactica these days.) Anyway, yes, but isn't it kind of cool to see her self-destructive for once? I think that's what I liked about her this episode. Laura's been in a place of a lot of inaction in 4.0 because of her illness. I was excited for her to say no to that and be running and doing aerobics and shit.
Kara's problem has always been that when someone baits her, and she knows it, she sees it as an excuse to let fly and not disappoint them because she was baited. It's still her problem, and it's still awesome to watch.
Isn't it interesting that it's still her problem? We'd been seeing a calmer/saner Kara post Demetrius. This was very old School Starbuck. She's such a fabulous badass and I'm pleased that 4.5 seems to be showcasing her badassery once more. And I was proud of Gaeta/AJ holding his own.
The Cally/Nicky stuff. I think its crazy that she slept with Hot Dog. And I need to watch her death eppie over again because is it possible she was just intent on not leaving Nicky with her cylon husband? Although why would she let Tory take the baby then. But she was out of her mind. OK I just don't know. Am sad that chief's marriage was further shit upon and that he now has been stripped of everything. But I don't know if he's sad...or relieved.
The Tigh turnaround was mind-blowing. The shizzy is gonna hit the fan if/when Ellen returns!! I don't know how he magically got OK with Caprica either.
no subject
Actually yes, I think it is. It's interesting because we haven't seen it before. I think I went on about it because I feel so strongly that the message taken from this episode shouldn't be, "OMG HOW SWEET! THEY GOT TOGETHER!" but..."Shit. Laura Roslin is having a complete frakking breakdown."
But yeah. That's a story they haven't told us yet, and seeing her so...unhinged, so not with it was almost physically painful to me. Which may be a sign it's a worthy story to tell.
We'd been seeing a calmer/saner Kara post Demetrius.
But we also didn't see much of Kara post-Demetrius and she was probably on a more even keel because she's essentially been vindicated. I'm not sure she really ever stabilised that much, although I did appreciate the return to oldschool Starbuck. Still, this seemed more informed by desperation, exhaustion and fear than the old bragging, swaggering image-maintaining Starbuck of season one. Something about the "Okay," she first gives Gaeta as she pulls herself together; puts on her Starbuck mask is...heartbreaking, and I think why I keep my sympathy for her even as she says the most horrid things?
it possible she was just intent on not leaving Nicky with her cylon husband?
I don't really think so since she knows Nicky is not the Chief's son and if she outs him as a Cylon he's gonna get carted off to the brig pretty damn swift. Even if her marriage to a cylon was enough to make her want to kill herself, it then becomes kind of selfish of her to not warn people first/take her son with her if we don't have that horrific, "my child is half monster - I'm part monster," kind of connection? Bah. I don't know.
The Tigh turnaround was mind-blowing. The shizzy is gonna hit the fan if/when Ellen returns!! I don't know how he magically got OK with Caprica either.
I blame the magical power of Flipper. And may, in fact, start blaming Flipper for every nonsensical thing that happens for the rest of the season. :)
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I rarely pay attention to the political stuff unless it's super-important. All that mattered to me here was that Bill totally played Tom. That was interesting. And without Laura. Such a different Bill than last week.
(I'm looking at you Demand Peace. I'm looking at you Dana Delaney. I'm looking at you Sagittaron fundamentalists.)
And remember the sons of Ares? No? I'm trying to forget them attacking the women too. :-(
It's totally in character for him to make things worse by just refusing to even contemplate relieving Tigh of duty because now that he's sorted out his issues with his BFF everyone else should fall in line.
You are so right. If Tigh flips out or goes all Cylony or anything and endangers that fleet, it's all on Bill's head. Really.
but put herself first at the expense of her people.
I always wanted Laura to do this, you know? This was my Laura being a human being. But I didn't know I'd get it like this. She's not really Laura when she goes all to one side. The best thing about her was her human, womanliness balanced with the ruthless leader. She's just not right all one way or the other. And it's sad. :-(
I mean, he was picking a crazy fight and she was all kinds of offensive, but I thought both of them played it really brilliantly until Gaeta had to say, "reckoning," because I find that word very cheesy.
Hee! I liked 'reckoning'. He could have said "I'm going to eventually try to beat your ass with my prosthetic leg and probably die trying", so I thought using the word reckoning showed a bit of restraint. Hee! I'm not being completely serious but I can't because I love those crazy kids and that scene. :-D
Ishay does bear watching. She's a minor character we haven't seen in a long time. I'm just sayin'. I like her, though. She's patched these people together so many times, I can see why she's bitter. But if she dies, who will be Cottle's protege? It's not like there is a medical school around. I'm always thinking of the future.
I liked Nicky as hybrid too. Seriously, what's Hot Dog going to do with him? And it totally makes Cally's suicidalness even harder to explain.
I'm going to wait and see if there is more meaning to this in later eps. I liked baby Nicky and I'm a bit annoyed that we didn' t even see how he was doing in the ep later. Does he need a kidney? Will Hotdog give blood? BSG need to answer some questions!
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And remember the sons of Ares? No? I'm trying to forget them attacking the women too. :-(
Ah yes! I'm looking at them too! Although apparently there was a cut plotline where they were actually being paid off by Zarek to go cause trouble in order to drive Roslin to shut down right of assembly so that he could make her look bad. Or something. But that never materalised on screen, SO.
You are so right. If Tigh flips out or goes all Cylony or anything and endangers that fleet, it's all on Bill's head. Really.
Yeah. I mean, I actually don't think Tigh's going to do that, and also with the pardon Lee issued, Tigh's legally allowed to stay in the Fleet and his job, but it's hardly diplomatic, and his method of dealing with it less so.
The best thing about her was her human, womanliness balanced with the ruthless leader. She's just not right all one way or the other. And it's sad. :-(
I think that partly I feel like she really doesn't have the right to be a complete human being, though? I mean I know that sounds awful, but her entire character was based on that horrible, but in many ways responsible and necessary decision to take responsibility for her species and its survival. The fact that Laura never, not once, shirked it was amazing, astounding, incredible.
So now I'm torn. To drive her to the point where she does shirk it makes for a great story but also...destroys something in me. I'm actually wounded. As
Hee! I liked 'reckoning'. He could have said "I'm going to eventually try to beat your ass with my prosthetic leg and probably die trying", so I thought using the word reckoning showed a bit of restraint.
HEE! I would have preferred the second option! XD
I do wonder why Cottle isn't training anyone to like, be a doctor after he inevitably dies cus he's old as dirt. Perhaps he is training her? I still...don't trust her though. DON'T HURT FLIPPER!
I think re: baby Nicky the situation was explained that he currently doesn't need anything more than dialysis (sp?) but that if his condition deteriorates he might need a transplant or further medical intervention somehow. So like, at the moment, I think we can assume he'll recover barring further storylines?
In any even, Hotdog won't need to give blood because Ishay said they had plenty of Nicky's type in the blood bank. That was what started the whole thing off.
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You're the third person to say so. :-) Aww! But wasn't it a great scene? And my boy won that round. He so deserves to win a little. Sigh.
Although apparently there was a cut plotline where they were actually being paid off by Zarek to go cause trouble in order to drive Roslin to shut down right of assembly so that he could make her look bad.
Zarek was behind that? Wow, where did they say that? They really need to explain some things on screen sometimes. Especially when it involves picking up women by the hair and slapping them. Ugh.
The fact that Laura never, not once, shirked it was amazing, astounding, incredible.
So true. She represents them at their best and worst sometimes. I remember Final Cut. None of them shirked their duties for so long. No pay, no break, just kept fighting. They are tired. She'll find her rest soon. But not yet. They all need to fight a bit longer. And harder.
To drive her to the point where she does shirk it makes for a great story but also...destroys something in me.
I hear you! And I always wanted her to shirk it and take her moment! I should be happy. And I'm not. *hugs you* Mom needs a break. She drove her kid to a bad hospital and the kid is even sicker and dying and it's all her fault. She needs a minute. She will be back, she's mom, it will be worse for her if she leaves for good. But she needs to breathe a minute. I can't begrudge that to her. I just can't. Just come back soon, Mom!
I would have preferred the second option! XD
Hee! After that conversation? You might just get your wish!
DON'T HURT FLIPPER!
Caprica is the mother. Something happens to that baby, she'll go all Head!Sixy on them and she and Tigh will tear that sickbay apart. Ooh!
I think we can assume he'll recover barring further storylines?
Yeah, they'll whisk out baby Chiefy/Hotdoggy when they need him to serve the plot. Poor baby. :-(
Ah, that's right. Nicky is okay. I just thought, renal failure, damn. In a child so little. I'm glad baby Nicky will be okay. I'm strangely attached to him. If he goes, it will be unexpected and very sad to me.
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Bwahahahahah!
And yes, Bill won't let Laura resign because he hates Zarek THAT MUCH. Even though ultimately keeping Laura as a figurehead is going to work against him, I think.
I just wish we had more of Kara's crazy space destiny and the Opera House and stuff. But I'm not worried. I know we'll get back to the crazy story of the Religious Women after we're done with the boring story of the Militant Men (I'm being harsh; as I said, I actually found this episode quite interesting, it just didn't tear into my heart like it would have if it were focused on other themes).
Ditto to all this. I liked the episode but we're missing the stuff that keeps me hooked.
...makes her attempts to airlock Nicky and herself make SO MUCH LESS SENSE and that was...previously such an impressive and painful piece of BSG. Post-partum and psychotic Cally trying to deal with the fact her son was half what she hated, that she loved him so completely while hating half of what he was, that she could never actually get rid of that either because he's her son, just, all of it...
YES. *sigh* I'm not a fan of this particular decision, so I'm glad it wasn't a bigger part of this week's episode. Although Hotdog is always good for a laugh from me.
Also ditto re: flipper baby and his adorable parents--that scene had me grinning, even while I questioned the degree of cheesy sympathetic hand-holding we got from Tigh.
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I'm also hopeful that we're going to get back the mythology stuff soon, because really, if it doesn't end up tying into the religious prophecy and Kara and the Opera House and stuff I'll be hella disappointed.
I'm also glad that the Nicky storyline was at least brief. Although now it's happened I hope it's not totally dropped. It seemed like Chief wasn't just palming off Nicky to Hotdog, but was actively still parenting the kid and I hope that they continue with some sort of Two Daddies situation because I think that even if he isn't his kid, Nicky keeps the Chief grounded and I'd fear for him if he didn't have that.
I am okay with the cheesy handholding just because I think Tigh bypassing cheesy and goes straight to re-frakking-diculous which is always good for a laugh. XD
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Bill: *arf*
Laura: Good puppy.
You know I like them together, but you know that I've always believed their relationship to be as above. I know who's on top (but no, I didn't really need to see it, though Laura's boobs are lovely).
Kara/Gaeta: Oh you go Gaeta. I'm angry with him for being so bitter. Oh come on. Lost a leg and inadvertantly led a whole bunch of Colonials to their deaths by working with a Cylon? Pfft. That's nothing to start a mutiny over... >.>
Zarek: Glad to have you back and disturbing Teh Shit.
Quorum: I still hate you picky little bastards and am all for marshal law. BRING BACK THE CAIN.
Oh is that the title of the new Transformers movie? Indeed!
The Happy Couple: Pretty noteable, the lovie dovies (and for the record, I couldn't see the baby either, Tigh). And foralways I LOVE COTTLE for smoking around a pregnant mom, in the hospital with no ill intent. I bet he tells new moms to eat peanut butter too, the cuddly bastard.
Cally/Nicky/Tyrol/Hot Dog: I guess this was a necessary retcon to move Tyrol along somehow, but I'm not happy with it, even though I hated Cally. I don't want to see Tyrol go to the evil side of the dark side.
Baltar: Did he just turn his preaching around and bitch slap God? Did he just pick a fight with The Man??
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Bill: *arf*
Laura: Good puppy.
XD
Yeah. It's entertaining and heartbreaking at the same time.
And also, agreed that I didn't need to see it. Mostly I think that RDM committed the unforgivable sin of making it so I didn't even notice her boobs. Really, RDM. YOU RUINED NAKED LAURA with a) Bill, b) a sheet and c) a bald cap. FAIL.
I actually think they've done a really good job of establishing Gaeta's motivations for doing what he's doing, but I feel awful for still not feeling anywhere near as sympathetic to him as I know I should. I think because he was never a favourite character of mine to begin with?
BRING BACK THE CAIN.
HEE! I love your use of the definite article.
And yes, that is the title of the new Transformers movie. And it makes the baby Jesus CRY.
And foralways I LOVE COTTLE for smoking around a pregnant mom, in the hospital with no ill intent. I bet he tells new moms to eat peanut butter too, the cuddly bastard.
Cottle/Cigarettes/Snark may be my BSG OT3. *contented sigh*
I guess this was a necessary retcon to move Tyrol along somehow, but I'm not happy with it, even though I hated Cally. I don't want to see Tyrol go to the evil side of the dark side.
Yeah. I hope it's like...actually necessary for Tyrol's arc rather than just something to keep Hera special. But I suspect it's the latter which is silly since she was special anyway.
OMG BALTAR! I totally forgot to mention him. And yes, I think he did just pick a fight with The Man. Which is kind of awesome actually. Especially since it was a return, somewhat, to Gaius the demagogue rather than Gaius the devout and actually reformed which I'm still a little worried about.
But basically the concept of being ragefully angry with God is a powerful one to me, so for the first time in a long time I actually enjoyed a Baltar related scene without being terrified of what it could signify for the show's endgame.
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I'm with you on this one, my first thought when I saw Laura all smiling and happy was "Dee". Bill really is so blind to what's going on with her right now and she was TOTALLY playing him in the scene where she's stretching. Not that he's not part of what makes her happy here, but I just don't see anything healthy at all in their various coping mechanisms.
And on the other hand, this volatile, important situation is being exacerbated through nigh-on criminal negligence at the hands of Adama and especially Laura Roslin.
Yep. Oh, Laura.
The random shots of people were much more subtle in this episode than the emo-ness of all the extras last week. I also noticed a rather large military presence at Baltar's church. We seem to have 3 centers of power coalescing, The Zarek/Gaeta faction, Adama/Roslin and the Cylons, and Gaius Baltar. It'll be very interesting to see how he fits into this when the pieces start falling into place.
I'm just going to mentally circle your reaction to Nicky's new not!hybrid status. Nice summation of exactly what felt so weird about it. I would feel so much better if Cally hadn't known, because this seems like unnecessarily cruel manipulation of a dead character.
CAPRICA WAS IN THE EPISODE!! AND THEY DISCUSSED THE FLIPPER!BABY! Ahem. They were far more adorable than they had any right to be.
On a side note, I can see Ishay being a bit freaked out by her, she was being very Cylony here. But, DO NOT hurt the baby.
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I think that it's interesting to note that while RDM assumed this was the first time they slept together both Mary McDonnel and Edward James Olmos were of the opinion that it was not. And in some ways, even though I dislike the 'ship, I prefer if it's not because then the point of that shot doesn't become, "Look, we're revealing to you that they're having sex," it becomes, "Why do you think we're choosing to show you this for the first time now?" And with all the context, the answer to that second question is quite dark and disturbing, while the first question isn't even...really a question, and certainly doesn't have half as interesting an answer.
CAPRICA WAS IN THE EPISODE!! AND THEY DISCUSSED THE FLIPPER!BABY! Ahem. They were far more adorable than they had any right to be.
I MAY BE EMBARASSED TO ADMIT I WATCHED THAT SCENE TWICE TO MAKE SURE I WASN'T SEEING THINGS AND THAT SHE DID, IN FACT, APPEAR, AND THAT THEY WERE, IN FACT, JUST AS ADORABLE AS I FIRST THOUGHT. DESPITE THE FACT THEY SHOULD BE HORRIFYING TOGETHER.
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The collective A/R squee was probably deafening in places, but it's just so unhealthy to me in that scene. They may be happy in their bubble, and deserve some measure of that happiness...but, who pays the price for it? I've never seen Laura Roslin be this overtly selfish before. She does seem very desperate and I'm a bit worried over what might happen when the mask finally cracks. This is not the way I want Laura to have her peace.
I think that it's interesting to note that while RDM assumed this was the first time they slept together both Mary McDonnel and Edward James Olmos were of the opinion that it was not.
Hmm, definitely interesting. Heh, I've found though that when any of the actors voice an opinion on their characters that's different from RDM, I usually agree with them. It'd be just as disturbing to me if it was their first time sleeping together. Because they are choosing to show us it now, regardless, so the question you asked stays the same.
I am amused that this is the most I have possibly ever thought about A/R in any context. I WOULD LIKE MY BRAIN BACK, BSG!
And forgot the first time: More Cylon show soon, y/y? I miss it, too. Why were we deprived of the awkwardness of the FF dealing with other Cylons?
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I loved this episode precisely for its return to S1's conflict and military/civilian politics, though. The world ended again, even worse, there's no enemy to unite anyone, nobody's sure they even want to survive, and what happens? Squabbling and grandstanding and vendettas and a downward spiral disguised as idealism.
Zarek is a huge missed potential for me, has been right since his first appearance. Someone with his ideals for change would be so much more interesting as a sincere character, a foil for the harsh and dictatorial pragmatism of Roslin and Adama, than as a small-minded fool.
I love Cylons and weird mythology and all, but this episode reminded me why I first fell in love with BSG.
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Yes, this is it exactly. And I do also find it fascinating. I think that the reason the episode didn't ping as strongly for me was mainly that they told this story using characters I found boring while not using the characters I find interesting very much and so it fell kind of flat for me?
Which is frustrating since the questions it poses are great.
Zarek is a huge missed potential for me, has been right since his first appearance. Someone with his ideals for change would be so much more interesting as a sincere character, a foil for the harsh and dictatorial pragmatism of Roslin and Adama, than as a small-minded fool.
I completely agree here. I think that the reason I have such a hard time getting a handle on Zarek is because I don't want to just write him off as a small-minded fool. For a long time, assuming that his idealism and belief in the revolution required that he just completely ignore the cylon threat in a dangerous fashion and continue to view himself as fighting the same government with the same stability and resources that he always was, worked. But...not really anymore. And that's frustrating.
I think in the end, I come down on the side that believes he really is an idealist, at least in his own mind, but one that's gradually come to believe that he is the revolution, and one who's come to hate this administration and government and grind of existence just as much as the last. Perhaps one who's fighting against admitting that because then he'd have to admit that the permanent revolution he seeks - but always, and only, on his terms and in his image - is impossible?
I don't know. Maybe I'm trying too hard to make him interesting. I wish I cared about him more and what he could have been less.
Also I forgive you for not being Laura-centric in your BSG love even though I FAIL TO UNDERSTAND IT! ;)
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Bwhahahahaha!!!
I do agree with you about Laura and about A/R here, to a point. I think that Laura wants to be doing here what we saw Dee doing last week, but whereas Dee actually seemed to be at peace with her decision, seemed truly to be enjoying her last day, Laura's just barely holding it together. Someone else (
My reading of the A/R sex differs from yours in that I think they've been sleeping together for quite some time now, which I think makes the fact that it's happening in this situation a little less sketchy overall (apparently EJO and MM agree with me, whereas RDM thinks this was their first time but admits it's open to interpretation). I still think that final scene was pretty much the most depressing thing ever, and I rather adore the fact that only on this show can happy post-coital cuddling from my favorite pairing be depressing. But it was all supposed to be Very Wrong in that moment and under those circumstances. Not that they were having sex, necessarily, but because they were abdicating their responsibility for the fleet in that moment.
But mostly, yes, we agree. Oh, show!
There was a lot of good world-building in this episode, actually. I found it gave me far more of a feel for the state of the Fleet than the last one which was all high drama and people punching each other in corridors. But...yeah. Kara and Gaeta in the mess hall was a macrocosm of all the hurt in the world and I really liked that moment.
Yes! They did so much with that scene. Lots of showing rather than telling.
I agree 100% about Tyrol and Cally and Hot Dog. Just...really, show???
BSG's continued destruction of the nuclear family as a healthy default for domestic stability and happiness continues to entertain me.
You know, I don't think I'd ever thought about this in quite these terms. I love it!
CAPRICA AND TIGH AND THE FLIPPERBABY ON THE SONOGRAM!!!!!!!! I am slightly ashamed to admit that when I realized what was happening in that scene I squealed out loud! WHY DO I LOVE THEM SO????? Oh, who cares. I DOOOOOO!!!!!
I kind of can sort of maybe see it if I squint, in that, while I think Saul thinks Ellen is forever dead, the fact that she was a cylon is probably, in some ways, a weight off his mind. Since in addition to killing her, he was also wrestling with his betrayal of her in terms of species. I think there's some peace to be found there in terms of his ability to begin to accept - at least a little - that he is a cylon. So I can kind of believe he's in a better place right now.
Yes, this! I was really surprised by Saul's lack of angst in that first scene as well as by the fact that apparently he's told at least Bill and Lee (and Zarek? and Laura? and the other Cylons?) that Ellen was the fifth. It's as though instead of causing him more distress, this knowledge has given him some peace, some ability to see what's true and what's not. Unlike Tyrol and his pronoun slippage (which was hilarious), Saul actually seems to have things straight here. He's XO of Galactica and he's a Cylon and he's freaking out a little bit while watching his fetus on a sonogram, but he's really holding everything together far better than I ever imagined he would be right now.
Which all makes me really worried for when Ellen shows up!!!! *smushes Caprica and Saul together*
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And you're very right that it's not entirely like Dee. Because for Dee death was more imminent and she was more brutally and thoroughly broken out of her cycle and into just...that space where she could forget everything. Laura's trying to do that, but like you said (whoever said), you can tell it's a facade. It's what makes it so painful. When she's jogging through the corridors, she looks...manic and also like she's on the verge of tears.
Or like she's two steps away from actually going stark raving mad. Not like emo poetry reading mad, but tearing off all her clothes, and running shrieking through the corridors losing every last shred of dignity mad and I find that absolutely fucking terrifying.
Yes! They did so much with that scene. Lots of showing rather than telling.
The bit where they got me was Katee Sackhoff's perfectly delivered, "Okay," when Gaeta demands she pay attention whatever her mood. It's like...scared, defiant, angry and exhausted all at once and you can actually see her putting on her Starbuck mask.
CAPRICA AND TIGH AND THE FLIPPERBABY ON THE SONOGRAM!!!!!!!! I am slightly ashamed to admit that when I realized what was happening in that scene I squealed out loud! WHY DO I LOVE THEM SO????? Oh, who cares. I DOOOOOO!!!!!
*JOINS YOU IN MAD INEXPLICABLE CAPSLOCK LOVE!*
And I'm glad we're on the same page about the way Ellen's cylonicity brought him some amount of peace. And...it's weird because in many ways I'm in this for Tigh's breakdown. Throughout season three I was desperate for him to just completely go off the rails. But now I think I just didn't want him built back up in a boring way. And building him back up as Adama's best alcoholic friend, or a human or with Ellen...building him back up in the same way he was when he was broken down is boring. Building him back up as the same man in completely different circumstances is more interesting.
In some ways, though, I still just want him to break. So we'll see what happens once he has his life sorted again and Ellen shows up.
While I'm convinced she will show up again, I'm at least relieved to see that the fleet and Tigh are assuming she's dead.
*smushes Caprica and Saul together*
*makes kissing sounds*
ETA: Forgot to add. I'm actually on board with the "they've been sleeping together for a while," interpretation even though it makes it less sketchy and you'd think I'd be on that sketchy as a method to slam the entire thing like white on rice.
But if it's the first time they've slept together then that scene can potentially be simply interpreted as a reveal. Like, okay, the purpose of this scene is to let you know that they're now in a sexual relationship. And okay, that involves a lot of overtones about why, and why now too but not as many as your version of events where they're already sleeping together. Which means the "why do we see this now?" question is a lot more pertinent? As in, what about the context of this episode means that this is a scene we need to see, if it's not here purely for expository pruposes? And with the context being as dark as it is, well, it's clearly not a good thing that they're running around frakking while the world's going to hell around them?
Am I even making any sense with my run-on sentences?
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I confess I have no desire at all to see Saul broken any more. I find myself inordinately delighted that he seems to have things as together as he does right now. Which, of course, means that he's doomed, as well.
Or like she's two steps away from actually going stark raving mad. Not like emo poetry reading mad, but tearing off all her clothes, and running shrieking through the corridors losing every last shred of dignity mad and I find that absolutely fucking terrifying.
YES!!! She really is terrifying me! And I'm probably not helping myself by trying to think of the show in terms of genre and coming to the inevitable conclusion that it's in many ways a tragedy--if perhaps not in precisely the classical or Elizabethan sense, at least close enough. And if Lee is Fortinbras who is going to be the one standing at the end to put society back together again (and I think he will be), I think Laura and Bill are in various degrees the tragic heroes. And then I start thinking about how most tragic heroes have ended up--not just with the dying at the end, but with what happens before they die at the end--and it kind of makes me want to start weeping and not stop until it's over. I'm worried! I think it will probably be okay--that Laura won't actually go mad or anything--but I'm still very worried!
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I'll be back with another comment on your other astute observations. I'm beginning to realize I need more distance to process last night's trauma.
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Part the First
In year four, I’m still working to get a handle on Zarek as well. I’m wondering if he ever was the idealist he claimed to be. Or was it a means to an end? Has it always been about Tom Zarek and the desire for power, damn the consequences and the people?
When the Tillium ship jumped away, my first thought is who the hell is going to protect them if they run into Cavil’s fleet? And if the Tillium ship was destroyed, they’re all dead in space. Does not Zarek realize that if he leads everyone to their deaths he’ll have no one to gloat to?
I mean, Adama handles things poorly. It's totally in character for him to make things worse by just refusing to even contemplate relieving Tigh of duty because now that he's sorted out his issues with his BFF everyone else should fall in line.
The smart thing to do would be to relieve Tigh of duty and, honestly, I don’t think Tigh would have a problem with that. But, it did occur to me that Lee, while still president, gave the four Cylons full pardons and allowed them to remain members of the fleet. So, Bill actually has the law on his side on this one.
Remember Dee? And how, once she knew she was going to die, she became superhappy and started having this perfect day and helping people and being flirty and delightful?
Laura just has longer before the inevitable death occurs.
I said last week - somewhere, to someone - that Laura was opting for a slow suicide. She believed she needed to suffer for what she had failed to accomplish and, to her mind, for leading them all to a slow death. I’d add now that the temporary euphoria she is experiencing, thanks to the drugs no longer wreaking havoc on her body, is giving her a false impression of happiness. When people start dying – and I think that’s bound to happen with a mutiny on the horizon – she’s going to have to look at herself and realize she could have prevented it and with that harsh reality she’ll resume her role as president.
I assume he was constantly brushing his teeth to get rid of the alcohol on his breath.
That’s the only serious reason I could come up with. At least Tigh never tried to hide the truth of what he was from people.
I'm not saying she doesn't want to sleep with Adama (although I really would rather not have seen it).
Heh. I didn’t comment on seeing them in bed together because I didn’t want to be accused of ageism. I didn’t have a problem with seeing her (though the bald cap, again, looked ridiculous) and I have no problem seeing older people, assuming they are in shape, without clothing. However, I could have lived without ever seeing EJO without a shirt on again.
She's doing it because she's so broken and so destructive she's actually trying to do the one thing that was antithetical to her before: put herself first. And not only that, because everyone must do that sometimes, but put herself first at the expense of her people.
That’s what felt off to me. Not that she wanted to grab some personal happiness before she died, but that she didn’t seem to care that the fleet was falling apart around her. And, worse yet, she was allowing Tom Zarek to wrestle control of the fleet away from her and Adama and obtain the power he always wanted.
Re: Part the First
The fact that Zarek had the co-ordinates to the ship's location suggests to me that it was only ever a temporary measure and that they would probably jump back to the Fleet if ambushed. That said, I agree, it was a stupid dangerous game that Zarek was playing.
That said, I actually think that stupid as I find his character, Zarek brought up many good points and while it might be informed by petty anger, the issues raised here are the same issues that were raised when half the Fleet jumped to Kobol; when people chose to die over coffee rather than give Tigh his martial law. In some ways I love that this show doesn't prioritise what is safe over what is fair and democratic, and I do wonder if I wouldn't have felt more righteously angry on behalf of the crew of the ships who didn't want cylon technology but were having it forced on them had it been Lee championing this cause as he did the issues of free speech, rather than Zarek, if only because I would know that Lee's motivations were pure?
Bah; I have no idea.
I also agree that Laura is not down for the count (well, she'd better not be!) and that this will wear off. I imagine that when it does, she'll be suitably angry at herself for what happened and be very proactive and responsible, whereas Adama will make some self-indulgent speech about his own failure calculated to make everyone else feel like they didn't measure up and business will go on as normal.
Also, it's NOT agism, it's EJOism and we condone it on this journal! ;)
And, worse yet, she was allowing Tom Zarek to wrestle control of the fleet away from her and Adama and obtain the power he always wanted.
In some ways I even think that's why she's doing it. She's self-destructing, but she's been destroying her "self" in order to save her people for so long, being "self" destructive isn't really something that's new or horrific enough for the way she's feeling. By now her "self" is essentially her people, so she's letting them burn too.
But passively. The whole thing is very passive. Because she's just...trying to convince herself she gave up.
Re: Part the First
It probably would have made a difference to me. You just ALWAYS know that Zarek has an ulterior, selfish motive for his actions. Maybe he was horrified at the thought of a Cylon alliance and their technology being installed on their ships, but I bet it took all of 30 seconds for him to start contemplating how he could use this to HIS advantage. At this point, not only does Zarek have to die, but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want to go on living as a prisoner, again. And maybe, in a few people's minds, he will have died a martyr. Plus, we could get Vice President Leland Adama. ;)
it's NOT agism, it's EJOism
Maybe we should put that on an icon. ;p
Re: Part the First
Yes, this continues to drive me crazy!!! They've got pretty good makeup people on this show. Surely they could manage to make her look like she'd actually lost her hair from chemo?!?!? I mean, I could sort of buy that Laura is using makeup and drawing on eyebrows (although with what makeup? ah, whatever!) to make herself feel better, but going to bed like that? I feel like the point of the bald cap when they drag it out is to highlight her vulnerability, but it just becomes farcical when they don't make her up accordingly. She looks like a Centauri woman from B5 rather than someone who is undergoing chemo.
Re: Part the First
Part the Second
Yeah, given how hung up she was on Tyrol from day one and that he was finally staring to view her differently, why would she sleep with Hot Dog? Hell, why would anyone? ;p But, I guess neither of us should put too much thought into it since Ron admitted it was a retcon to make it clear that Hera is still special and one of a kind after deciding Tyrol would be one of the four. However, I do wish they had put more thought into the implications. Ron claims it was not his intent to make Cally look like a cheater, but how can she not look that way? And we could have had Cottle know the truth – they would type a baby’s blood at birth – but have him keep the information to himself. That way, it wouldn’t change the context of Cally’s previous actions if she was in the dark.
This just makes Cally a deceptive cheater in a series where there are already two other marriages with women who are, apparently, serial cheaters (Kara and Ellen, though I'm still not convinced Sam's comment at Lee wasn't some form of trash-talking/damage control).
I thought of that too. :/ Ron would probably argue that Lee was seeing Kara behind Dee’s back, but then they had Kara tell Dee that Lee won’t cheat. Sigh. I really don’t think Ron hates women, he seems to adore his wife, so I guess I have to chalk it up to obliviousness.
But srsly, Ishay. Join Gaeta's revolution if you must but I WAS NOT KIDDING ABOUT THE KNIFE, BITCH.
I want a flash forward ending in which we Lee is married to Ishay. Yes, I want the series to end on an in joke! Plus, her characters first name is Layne. We could call the ship LayLee! :D
I feel bad for having nothing to say about Lee but basically all he did this episode was wander around.
Hey! Laura wouldn’t take his calls! He was pacing the halls. ;p
Re: Part the Second
But as you say, Lee is the one who wants to be upfront about the whole thing whereas Kara wants to just carry on the way they are (sort of). I mean, there are counter-examples: Dee, Baltar, but it's still, I dunno. Weird.
Like you, I don't think it's some weird personal issue RDM has or anything. But that's not something that's a prerequisite for his having an oblivious fascination with it as a story idea?
HAHAHAHA. LayLee. Now I want the injoke ending too! Basically because I won't get the 'ship ending there that I want I figure I'll just go for anyone that isn't Kara. ;)
Hey! Laura wouldn’t take his calls! He was pacing the halls. ;p
Oh, all right, have it your way! I have little to say about Lee because all he did this episode was pace the halls with great gravitas and intent. :p
Re: Part the Second
As long as you acknowledge that. :p
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Oh no! Laura was making me really uncomfortable throughout this episode but I hadn't made that connection. I admit I was squeeful about the sex (I ship them because they only time I can stand Bill is when Laura is around to make him hot ;) But I hate her not caring. It's who she is. Your people!
I assume he was constantly brushing his teeth to get rid of the alcohol on his breath.
It wasn't till my second viewing that I got that. I was wondering WTF was up with the heroic musical score.
Kara's problem has always been that when someone baits her, and she knows it, she sees it as an excuse to let fly and not disappoint them because she was baited. It's still her problem, and it's still awesome to watch.
That was my favorite scene of the whole episode, even though they were both horrifying. It was so perfect for both characters, and I loved the Collaborators reversal.
Cally trying to deal with the fact her son was half what she hated, that she loved him so completely while hating half of what he was, that she could never actually get rid of that either because he's her son, just, all of it...
I hate that retcon for a FEW reasons, but oddly the implications for Cally's suicide are the part I'm most okay with. I love her and I loved that reading of her death - well, not loved YKWIM - but I wrote elsewhere that: some people really came down on Cally for almost killing her son out of "hate" - not me; it just made me want to hug her more. I have strange taste in fictional women. ;p But maybe I like that particular motive being off the table. Because I think it works anyway. She tried to kill herself, because in her mind, the terrifying world she already inhabited had just reached surrealist levels of horror - Tigh and her husband Cylons?? - and I think she just couldn't bear to live in that world anymore, where any smiling face could hide a monster. And I can understand that she just instinctively could not bear to leave her baby alone in that world with no one to protect him. Oh, Cally. :(
but I really don't understand why her instinct wasn't to tell someone.
Would anyone have really believed the crazy drugged woman who just had a public breakdown because she was convinced her husband was cheating when she said he and the XO were secret Cylons though? It obviously wasn't rational, but given how close to the edge she was even beforehand I can imagine she just snapped and thought that nowhere was safe. Or, you know, Cottle is totally lying to protect Nicky from his psychotic anti-Cylon medic. ;) Who had better keep her paws off Caprica, my god. That was terrifying.
And I start to wonder what RDM's obsession with romanticising relationships where the guy is mad faithful in love while the girl sleeps around is all about.
Carol-Anne was going to be a cheater too, per the podcast but they cut it. Even the main female character on Caprica is described as "a brilliant scientist and unfaithful wife." Grrr.
I really...I don't know what's gonna happen when the exact thing that happened with Baltar happens again but this time Gaeta can't console himself in the knowledge that he was secretly on the right side all along.
IKR! Feelix, do you never learn?!
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PLEASE DO. I don't think you adequately discussed how Bill's behavior was utterly reprehensible.
I'm also a fan of "hand-holdey and not-chokey" and "it's not AGEism, it's EJOism" (hell yes).
If they kill Flipper, I will hold you while you cry!
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Like, this is going to sound lame, but I felt like if I just exhaustedly dismissed him and mentioned him in passing as that Crazy Old Enabler I could move on and not have to actually confront his significance in this mess?
Also, I'm still trying to finish this stupid fucking Bill vid (which is taking FOREVER because a) I've haven't been able to do much on it lately due to stress and moving and b) I'm comparatively unfamiliar with the footage) and I was worried I'd start to hate him to the point where I'd never finish the thing.
Which aren't GOOD excuses but they are the only ones I have. I just... The idea that he was worth my effort this week, even to NAILBAT, was exhausting.
If they kill Flipper, I will hold you while you cry!
EVEN THE THOUGHT THAT THEY MIGHT KILL FLIPPER MAKES ME WANT SOMEONE TO HOLD ME WHILE I CRY.
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*holds*
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Also, epic stupid anti-Bill vid is the sort of vid I think may only be anti-Bill to me (and hopefully you). I fear people watching it and going, "Oh BILL you poor WOOBIE, everyone LEAVES YOU and you just STAND THERE LIKE A WOOBIE not doing anything while it happens!" Which, you know, would be a literally accurate description of it. When I'm less jetlagged and ticked at the guy, I find this notion amusing rather than depressing.
Also, I'm totally going back to sleep again now (I woke up an impressive five and a half hours ago!) due to jetlag and extreme previous sleep deprivation, but I'll look out for you online tomorrow?
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