beccatoria (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
beccatoria) wrote2010-07-03 12:21 pm
beccatoria) wrote2010-07-03 12:21 pm
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Doctor Who: Sexist bullshit from Jacob on TWoP (I know, I know, shocking)
I've become super upset about this, so sorry but I'm going to inflict it on the rest of you.
Jacob is a recapper from TWoP. He ends up recapping a lot of the shows I like - Farscape, BSG and Doctor Who. At first I liked Jacob - I liked his pretentious mythological symboly bullshit because I like pretentious mythological symboly bullshit. I liked how much care he gave to his recaps and how he essentially turned them into epic meta episode reviews that were like love letters. So it was rough when it turned out he was a jerk. Obviously I don't know the guy personally at all - I don't know what's going on in his head. But from my vantage point, to steal one of his own damn metaphors, it looked like he put on his own giant Helo Suit, bought his own PR and started dismissing dissent as personal attacks and just...it got ugly.
Mostly I feel furious with myself - I feel like an absolute punk - because there was a while, back at the end of BSG, when I was like, "Okay dude, you clearly have issues, but you actually wrote a fairly useful bunch of paragraphs in terms of explaining why I thought the finale sucked balls." And you know, that's still true. But now it's also infuriating. He's clearly not intellectually deficient. How can a reasonably smart person be this ugly in his behaviour?
BECAUSE, my friends, BECAUSE. Like the dumb, stupid punk that I am, I thought to myself, Jacob loved Aeryn Sun. I bet you he loves River Song! I bet you this'll be one of the times his weird bullshit doesn't get in the way of him spinning a good tale of mythological symboly bullshit. I'm never making that mistake again. And not just because I think I'll get burned but because I'm genuinely fucking ashamed of myself for trying to hold out for the "good bits" even though I knew he was a sexist ass. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me - shame on me for thinking it would work like that.
Even more shame on him for being such a jerk.
I made it part way through the recaps of Time of Angels and Flesh and Stone. And most of that was only from horrified fascination. I don't even know where to start with the dissonance in it, how much implied, unexamined woman-fearing is mixed with rants about the misogyny of the writing. Near as I can tell, and I am far from confident in this, it's some bizarre attempt to claim Moffat wrote these women in these relationships in a way that demands a sexist response, and isn't that horrifying, and he's only doing it ironically. Also something about how heteronormative the relationship between the Doctor and River is because they sarcastically banter at each other. Something about Boy Spoons and Girl Spoons and River being Captain Jack in drag but if she was we'd all be horrified by how homophobically it was written or something. Honestly. HE LOST ME AT THE SPOONS.
But...but that's not even the worst bit.
That's just shit I get pissed off about quietly and maybe rant to my friends about via email or work into larger posts about other shit. Sure there's an extra layer of fury because he's doing all this from a paternalistic vantage point of telling women what's REALLY bad for them, but fuck it. The guy has issues with women. Give him a fucking medal.
This bit though. This bit I am so appalled by, so angry about, so furious with, I do not even have the energy to explain all the ways in which it is disgusting, not okay, dangerous, aggressive, violent and violating. If I wasn't so disillusioned with the website and Jacob's response to criticism I might actually write an email of complaint. I'm putting it under its own cut not because I'm trying to be melodramatic but because it is honestly an upsetting thing to read and I don't want it floating around on people's flists unrequested. Please bear in mind this is written by a guy who in multiple other places in these recaps attempts to paint himself as a bastion of equality against the rising tide of woman-hating.
He's recapping the final scene in Flesh and Stone between Amy and the Doctor. Whatever your thoughts on the appropriateness of that, narratively, this is not an appropriate response:
"...Which would be a fine ending, making this a B- follow-up to last week, except for how Amy then decides the perfect coda would be to take the Doctor back to her creepy house on her wedding night, and out of nowhere try to fuck him. So the Doctor gets to act skeeved out, and Amy gets to chase him around in heat with her dress up over her head like some kind of sex abuse victim on Law & Order, and that's how we learn the key to saving the universe is getting Amy's slutty ass married... Before it's too late!"
I think the final sentence is somehow meant to justify the vile, vile crap that comes before, like...look guys, I'm just painting the ugly truth of what the episode REALLY said. But no. Just no. Even if he were, those words? Those comparisons? No. NOT OKAY. Your issues are what's showing here, Jacob, and it's gross.
Note: While I like to reply to everyone, I am sufficiently furious about this that I cannot guarantee I will be willing to engage with you if your point of view is that Jacob was justified in using this language. I'm not talking about whether or not there are sexist elements to the show - I'm talking about Jacob's response to his perception of them and his decision to use these terms and comparisons in an incredibly insensitive way to highlight that perception.
ETA: the section of quoted text comes from the Recaplet (that you click to expand) rather than the full-length recap. I should have noted this earlier; apologies to any who went looking and couldn't find it.
Jacob is a recapper from TWoP. He ends up recapping a lot of the shows I like - Farscape, BSG and Doctor Who. At first I liked Jacob - I liked his pretentious mythological symboly bullshit because I like pretentious mythological symboly bullshit. I liked how much care he gave to his recaps and how he essentially turned them into epic meta episode reviews that were like love letters. So it was rough when it turned out he was a jerk. Obviously I don't know the guy personally at all - I don't know what's going on in his head. But from my vantage point, to steal one of his own damn metaphors, it looked like he put on his own giant Helo Suit, bought his own PR and started dismissing dissent as personal attacks and just...it got ugly.
Mostly I feel furious with myself - I feel like an absolute punk - because there was a while, back at the end of BSG, when I was like, "Okay dude, you clearly have issues, but you actually wrote a fairly useful bunch of paragraphs in terms of explaining why I thought the finale sucked balls." And you know, that's still true. But now it's also infuriating. He's clearly not intellectually deficient. How can a reasonably smart person be this ugly in his behaviour?
BECAUSE, my friends, BECAUSE. Like the dumb, stupid punk that I am, I thought to myself, Jacob loved Aeryn Sun. I bet you he loves River Song! I bet you this'll be one of the times his weird bullshit doesn't get in the way of him spinning a good tale of mythological symboly bullshit. I'm never making that mistake again. And not just because I think I'll get burned but because I'm genuinely fucking ashamed of myself for trying to hold out for the "good bits" even though I knew he was a sexist ass. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me - shame on me for thinking it would work like that.
Even more shame on him for being such a jerk.
I made it part way through the recaps of Time of Angels and Flesh and Stone. And most of that was only from horrified fascination. I don't even know where to start with the dissonance in it, how much implied, unexamined woman-fearing is mixed with rants about the misogyny of the writing. Near as I can tell, and I am far from confident in this, it's some bizarre attempt to claim Moffat wrote these women in these relationships in a way that demands a sexist response, and isn't that horrifying, and he's only doing it ironically. Also something about how heteronormative the relationship between the Doctor and River is because they sarcastically banter at each other. Something about Boy Spoons and Girl Spoons and River being Captain Jack in drag but if she was we'd all be horrified by how homophobically it was written or something. Honestly. HE LOST ME AT THE SPOONS.
But...but that's not even the worst bit.
That's just shit I get pissed off about quietly and maybe rant to my friends about via email or work into larger posts about other shit. Sure there's an extra layer of fury because he's doing all this from a paternalistic vantage point of telling women what's REALLY bad for them, but fuck it. The guy has issues with women. Give him a fucking medal.
This bit though. This bit I am so appalled by, so angry about, so furious with, I do not even have the energy to explain all the ways in which it is disgusting, not okay, dangerous, aggressive, violent and violating. If I wasn't so disillusioned with the website and Jacob's response to criticism I might actually write an email of complaint. I'm putting it under its own cut not because I'm trying to be melodramatic but because it is honestly an upsetting thing to read and I don't want it floating around on people's flists unrequested. Please bear in mind this is written by a guy who in multiple other places in these recaps attempts to paint himself as a bastion of equality against the rising tide of woman-hating.
He's recapping the final scene in Flesh and Stone between Amy and the Doctor. Whatever your thoughts on the appropriateness of that, narratively, this is not an appropriate response:
"...Which would be a fine ending, making this a B- follow-up to last week, except for how Amy then decides the perfect coda would be to take the Doctor back to her creepy house on her wedding night, and out of nowhere try to fuck him. So the Doctor gets to act skeeved out, and Amy gets to chase him around in heat with her dress up over her head like some kind of sex abuse victim on Law & Order, and that's how we learn the key to saving the universe is getting Amy's slutty ass married... Before it's too late!"
I think the final sentence is somehow meant to justify the vile, vile crap that comes before, like...look guys, I'm just painting the ugly truth of what the episode REALLY said. But no. Just no. Even if he were, those words? Those comparisons? No. NOT OKAY. Your issues are what's showing here, Jacob, and it's gross.
Note: While I like to reply to everyone, I am sufficiently furious about this that I cannot guarantee I will be willing to engage with you if your point of view is that Jacob was justified in using this language. I'm not talking about whether or not there are sexist elements to the show - I'm talking about Jacob's response to his perception of them and his decision to use these terms and comparisons in an incredibly insensitive way to highlight that perception.
ETA: the section of quoted text comes from the Recaplet (that you click to expand) rather than the full-length recap. I should have noted this earlier; apologies to any who went looking and couldn't find it.
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Wtf?
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Ugh. I don't watch Doctor Who, I know nothing of Amy and River Song (except my flist thinks they're awesome which is good enough for me), and I'm not sure exactly what *happened* in the final scene he's describing (which is par for the course for Jacob's "recaps", you know). But yeah... wow. Not okay. Not okay in the guise of being ~ironic~ and some kind of ~progressive commentary~ on the show's sexism which may or may not be there. Jacob psychology is based on projection. :p
Also, LOL spoons? *shakes head in exasperation*
But mostly ((hugs)) because I KNOW, GIRL. I used to *devour* Jacob's recaps. They made me ~think~. One made me cry! I used to kiss his ass all over TWOP and his journal. Those bits of his Daybreak criticism you quoted *remain insightful* and I don't doubt that I saw something genuinely smart and groovy in his other writings once. And it's just... so, so hard to reconcile that with the arrogant, nasty side of him that's always showing now, and the sexist bile he spews all over his LJ and that sneaks into his recaps.
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It's really good to know I'm not the only one in this boat. It just really makes me wonder what happened, you know? Something changed.
Jacob psychology is based on projection. :p
I WANT TO LAUGH OUT LOUD AND CRY ON THE INSIDE AT THE SAME TIME. So true.
I was going to give you a potted history of the scene but since you've seen it, I'll just say that something else that possibly gets lost in only seeing that scene and which adds yet more context to why Amy's doing what she's doing at this point in time and in this manner is the adventure they just had involved River Song. River Song is a crazy, mysterious person from the Doctor's future - they keep meeting in the wrong order. She knows the Doctor very well and at some point in the future she's going to become one of the most important people to him ever. It's more than implied that she's his wife. The Doctor is intrigued by this, but also terrified. At the start of the adventure he flat out attempts to run away from "my future" because "time is not the boss of me!" So right before Amy takes him back to her house, she says she wants to show him something because she knows he's running away, and she's running away too. So her decision to this at this point becomes even less random and her assertion that it needn't be "long term" even less (potentially) selfish/trying to trap him/insert other sexist cliche.
So like, I genuinely think that there are potential areas of comment about the fact that the whole thing takes place on the night before Amy's wedding? (Although I also think that in the finale they handle that just fine). There are things you can comment on about the whole series and sexism probably, but as you say, this isn't it.
And, again as you say, even if it was? OMFG, do not be mixing up someone taking control of their own sexuality with being the victim of sexual abuse. Do not be describing a victim of sexual abuse as having her "skirt over her head" and in "heat". Do not be describing women as being in "heat" as if they're
dogsbitches. It's a disgusting animalistic description of a character he can't seem to decide is a sexual embarrassment or a sexual victim because she's a sexual embarrassment, and we have enough victim blaming going on in those circles without ~ironic commentary~ about it.BLARGH. BECKA SMASH.
;) Thanks for listening. ((hugs))
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*hugs Amy and River*
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*hugs Amy and River*
*is in love with the sheer disgust Donna is expressing in your icon*
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And he was ALL OVER the mystic symbolic bullshit in Series 1 and I don't remember this level of contempt being shot at Rose (thankfully). And it just make me sad at how much I used to enjoy his recaps. And pissed.
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I do recommend catching up with this series if you can. The daleks are only around for one episode and then they come back sort of right at the end, but I wouldn't characterise the finale as a "dalek episode". There's like...one of them. And it precipitates a character getting an truly awesome moment of awesome.
It's crazy because this whole series is basically a fairy tale - it's a terrifying, funny, serious, epic, tragic bed time story that a small girl is told again and again by her imaginary friend, before she gets married a long time ago tomorrow morning. It's really - in my opinion - quite lovely in its entirety, even if there were a few episodes that made me roll my eyes very a lot. And I would expect Jacob to be ALL OVER THAT SHIT. But no. Apparently it's obvious and overdone, even though I think it's pretty subtle for the most part. It's just clearly some weird dislike he's taken to the entire series and is justifying with big words and...as you say, some of the nastiest language I've seen printed in a public space recently.
I hope you enjoy season four. My memory of it was that Ten was less obnoxious than in season two or three, and Donna was awesome, but then it kind of all fell apart at the end. I don't want to spoil you, but I will say, if you like Donna a lot and don't know her ending, you may wish to...find out what it is to prepare yourself if you haven't watched it already.
But! Again if you haven't watched it already, you should absolutely, definitely watch the Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead two-parter because that's when you get to meet RIVER. RIVER SONG, THE MOST AWESOMEST CHARACTER IN DOCTOR WHO.
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That in no way justifies that kind of gross comment by Jacob. Not even a little. I'm far more horrified by his comment than I was by the scene itself.
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But as I said, I can see how that would be squicky for some. Personally it's not so much Amy's conduct regarding her flirting techniques I take issue with so much as it doesn't really bode well for the person she's marrying the next day. I've never been totally convinced by Rory/Amy and part of that was because she seemed to love him as a friend/brother more than a lover, though the finale did help with that.
But, you know, this is how we have a conversation about the scene, not by throwing around gross commentary like he did. :( Like you say, the comment is far worse than the scene ever was.
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but that... that's just really awful. yes, there were issues in that scene, but the narrative treated them as problematic and was respectful of both of the characters. I don't even know, guys. I am SO TIRED of people calling Amy a slut and dissing Moffat because his ladies are both sexy and intelligent.
so ANGRY right now. hopefully I own't break dishes trying to wash them.
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ME TOO. I like Amy, but I think I like her EVEN MORE every single time someone calls her an icky name. Because seriously? I have seen so many people say things like "she uses her looks to get what she wants" and I'm just like...WHERE. I hate it when people use their own sexism to invent it in a show and cast it as the show's issue. And the overall response to River makes me want to smash things.
(Um, hi, got carried away!)
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Mostly though, HOW IS THAT AN OKAY THING TO SAY EVER IN ANY CONTEXT? That is hands down the most woman-hating thing I have seen or heard in a long time. Fuck you, Jacob, and your goddess kink. UGH.
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I WANT TO WRITE A LONG, THOUGHTFUL RESPONSE FILLED WITH MYTHIC SYMBOLY BULLSHIT TO THIS PARAGRAPH. <3
I just..it's such classic woman-hating, slut-shaming bullshit, you know? Even if it was in response to something genuinely sexist (which I am far from convinced of), how is it now abundantly clear to anyone who claims to have even half a brain and the tiniest amount of information about sexism unable to see that the response is worse?
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And it makes me SO SAD, because he really does recap all of my favourite shows on that damn website. AND UGH, THE CRAPPINESS OF HIM. I am so glad I'm not the only one who CANNOT FREAKING STAND IT.
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And it really is spectacularly unfair that he gets every show I want to read about. At least he hasn't gotten Fringe yet. *twitches*
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I can deal with snark. I can't deal with his current levels of asshattery towards the female members of the DW cast-- and to the ladies in general, because his treatment of Crystal Bowersox in his recaps of the last American Idol season was equally horrific.
I really hope he gets replaced for the next series of DW, but I have a definite suspicion I'm hoping in vain.
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I'm disappointed but not really surprised to hear his attitude is present in his other recaps too. :(
It's really alarming how suddenly and awfully he changed his tune and started with this shit. Like you say, it's not the snark, it's that it's sexist snark. Really really icky shit.
I'm hoping in vain too, but...I am hoping. :(
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Best synopsis ever.
"IN HEAT," "slutty" and "like some kind of sex abuse victim" ... these phrases do not belong in the same sentence, describing the same woman. Or, um, in any other context really. Ugh.
But don't feel stupid. I can still remember my days of waiting impatiently for each new TWoP recap to be posted to the site. Jacob IS capable of being a very good writer; sharp, insightful, funny, killer turns of phrase. And as we know many terrific writers are assholes. XD Though I agree with you and
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WORD.
It's just such a level of fail, I struggle to even comprehend it. When I first made this post, I actually felt uncomfortable pasting it, you know? Like, repeating it. As in, if I'd had this conversation with all of you face to face, I don't think I could have brought myself to even say these words it's so fucked up.
Thanks for the reassurance on the stupidity front, but...I'm not beating myself up horribly. It's more like righteous anger if that makes sense? Like, I do understand why I thought what I did when I thought it, and I don't think I was being entirely unreasonable in my opinions at the time. But due to his bizarre later behaviour, while I do feel stupid, most of the emotional energy from that feeling has been channeled righteously back towards Jacob. So I feel like I'm in a good place of using my feelings of stupidity to metaphorically beat up on HIM not on myself. WAHEY.
I've thought for a while that he ventured into gender-fail territory when it came to female characters he didn't like *cough* Cally *cough*,
For serious, when I read that my first thought was, "So wait, the Doctor is not a Amy's sexual abuser, but Amy is the slutty sex abuse victim who tried to rape her sexual abuser? Is that how this is gonna work, Jacob?"
Poor Cally. I do wonder how much fandom would have hated her if Jacob hadn't branded her white, racist trash whose highest ambition was to get the shit beaten out of her.
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Personally I learnt to ignore Jacob a long time ago. Seeing things that are actually there and talking about them in an objectionable way is one thing, but he does have a terrible tendency to see things that aren't there in the slightest, and STILL talk about them objectionably.
He still isn't nearly as bad as the blogger who wrote a long vitriolic diatribe about how Firefly was all about how men are rapists and women are slaves, or something to that effect. I cannot remember who it was, and it was horrible enough that I won't look for it. You probably know who I mean, any road.
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And yes, Jacob is definitely manufacturing stuff to be upset about now. Though personally I'd also say that he excuses stuff he ought to be objecting too. It's like a double-edged sword of failure.
I do recall that essay yes. Honestly that essay was crazycakes but at least that person didn't have a platform like Jacob's from which to spew crap forth. And didn't use flowery language and mythic structure to hide the hate in it. I almost think I'd prefer him if he was so obviously off the deep end. *sigh*
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I made it through two DW recaps this season before I straight up couldn't take it anymore... I think he may be singlehandedly ruining TWoP for me. And yes, I have considered writing emails to them begging for him to be fired.
So. YOU ARE CLEARLY NOT ALONE HERE.
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Alas he seems to have quite the following so I think we're stuck with him for the forseeable future. GAH. I just wish he wasn't recapping nearly ALL the shows I'd actually have an interest in reading recaps for. Like you, he's singlehandedly putting me off the entirety of TWOP.
I don't think he despises all the shows he recaps. I kind of get the impression he swings wildly - he either hates it and manufactures all kinds of shit to object to, or he loves it and refuses to see the most blatant instances of faaaaaaail. *sigh*
LET'S HATE HIM SOME MORE. :D
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Once upon a time I loved Jacob's recaps too, primarily for BSG. I read them with intensity and thought they were pretty great (even though sometimes I had no clue what he was talking about). I've since learned a lot in general, and read some stuff about him. And now I can't bear to read any of his recaps, even for ones he did a while ago, like the Farscape ones. I've actually read some other terrible comments he made regarding this season of DW in the recaps but I just couldn't bring myself to read through them to read it first-hand or get more info. I appreciate your quote of it and agree with you wholeheartedly. The more I think about the stuff he's written the more skeeved out I tend to be.
Additionally am going to friend you, just fyi!
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Yeah, you pretty much describe my entire experience with Jacob except I commend your intelligence in staying far, far away! He really does have a crazy ability to get worse the more you find out about him.
Anyway, hello and welcome! Per userinfo page, random friendings are always fine! :)
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Someone was falling all over Jacob, and I got angry and wanted to point out that he's not all amazingness, and guess what? He edited out that paragraph. Yeah.
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