BSG: Collaborators
Oct. 29th, 2006 11:15 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
beccatoriaI have a boatload of stuff to say about this episode, but I'm reluctant to start. I've been staring at the "Update Journal" screen for about five minutes now. Not because I didn't like it - I found the episode interesting, as usual, but because there's an awful lot. I don't know where to start.
I'll start with Jammer. You go Jammer, kick and cry and scream and don't you, for a damn second, act with stoic dignity in a situation where you are being afforded none. Don't be Leoben, and stand silently, with quiet conviction. Don't go down with grace. Don't make it any easier for the people doing this to you - you scream and act like you're fucking terrified and make them watch how ugly it is.
Kara - you are six years old. You need parents. This isn't about what happened to you on New Caprica. I mean, it is, everything is - but what happened to you is what was happening to you when you were six, except this time, you're probably too big to hide in the closet so no one can find you. Not because you're afraid of being hit - it probably stopped being about the pain a long time ago, and Leoben, well he adored you, right? - it's so you have some control over your own environment.
How old were you when your emotional development got seriously warped? When it stopped? Four? Six? Ten?
You're six years old and you're throwing a temper tantrum and you have the responsibilities and abilities of an adult. And it's ugly. And you need parents.
But you know what? I respect you for doing this on TV. For showing the fallout and damage a fucked up childhood will cause instead of using it as shorthand for "tortured emo angst" to make a character more appealing, the way TV so often does. Because you are behaving in an utterly unappealing fashion. This is worse, even, than your self-destructive behaviour in "Scar." I don't see how beating up a man about to die, trying to make him beg, for your own gratification, can be romanticised. I don't see how declaring that someone's gotta pay and you don't give a shit who, can be romanticised.
I don't like you very much right now. In fact, what I want to say to you, with compassion and respect, is, "Fuck you." Pass on to Ron D Moore that doing this to his leading lady is brave and he needs to stick to it. Tell him you're a good kid, but you're screaming until your lungs are fit to bleed, and what you really need are decent parents.
Until someone gives you structure and safety and a chance to be heard, you're just going to keep on acting out in a desperate attempt to control every single fucking thing.
Laura, I love you, even if I loved you slightly more in the sweater of Resistance Hotness, but I'm a little too upset to speak to you right now. So I'll talk to Zarek instead. I like him much less.
Okay, Zarek, I'm too tired to talk to you about the screw-up of your trials, and Roslin already did that smackdown. Plus you believe in it and that made for an interesting scene.
Why did you offer Laura the presidency like this? Why not elections? This is...not democracy. This is not what you held hostages on Colonial One for. Her first unelected presidency was far more legitimate than this backroom dealing to get her into place without the consent of the people.
We both know she's awesome at it. Do you honestly believe the fleet wouldn't elect her right now? Neither of these things is the point.
This isn't democracy. I want her back in the president's chair, I really do. But like this? I was so close to supporting her in stealing the election, because I respected her integrity in admitting what she was doing and not dressing it up. She was going to break the law and steal an election and (for reasons I outlined in a totally different post) I was on her side in her desires, I feared the same things. And I respected the choice because she didn't pretend it was anything other than it was.
But this? This is dangerous. This is presidents getting made in secret without the consent of the populous.
When did you change, Zarek? What the fuck did you do it for? If it's so that later, you can point to the shaky foundations of her presidency and cause trouble, I will have your eyes. Not that I think this is the case.
And Laura, yeah, I do need to talk to you - tell me you know how dodgy this is. Tell me you know how wrong it is to force Zarek to give up the chair of power by threatening to take away his military support. That's not something Adama has any right to do. That's a military coup, and tell me you haven't forgotten what happened the last time you and he played chicken. Tell me you know what you did.
Also, your general pardon, tell me that's going to come back and be a difficult issue in the coming episodes (in the coming season/s) and that it isn't going to get swept away under the carpet. Thank you.
(You know my threats are hollow, you have my heart, but I'm trying to take a stand her, and like Lee, I'd appreciate it if you let me make it and found it adorable and not idiotic.)
Chief, I feel for you, but look at what you did.
Anders, I'd feel more for your crisis of conscience if you'd a) used your "leaving in a big huff" scene to cast a "Not Guilty" vote and thus save a man's life, and b) hadn't been the one advocating the death of Ellen Tigh even though you knew the rescue was imminent. That kind of wipes your, "It's necessary during war, but now we should move on," credit.
Gaeta - for a long time I thought you were being stupid not telling people what was going on, but then I realised, how would you know who was getting your information? How would you know Kara wouldn't pass something like that on? I still think you should have been a bit more forthcoming, but thank you for pointing out that BALTAR WAS LEGALLY ELECTED.
Tigh, you continue to crumble in the exact way I thought you would. It's horrifying and beautiful to watch. I love that you're so adamant this is about justice and that you believe that. I don't have much else to say that I haven't already said to you, so just know that when you go down in flames, when you're completely irredeemable and you've screwed and fought with and pushed away everyone you ever cared about, when you hate yourself and there's no climbing out of the darkness, I'll still love you.
This episode was confusing to me, but I guess that's a good thing.
I'll start with Jammer. You go Jammer, kick and cry and scream and don't you, for a damn second, act with stoic dignity in a situation where you are being afforded none. Don't be Leoben, and stand silently, with quiet conviction. Don't go down with grace. Don't make it any easier for the people doing this to you - you scream and act like you're fucking terrified and make them watch how ugly it is.
Kara - you are six years old. You need parents. This isn't about what happened to you on New Caprica. I mean, it is, everything is - but what happened to you is what was happening to you when you were six, except this time, you're probably too big to hide in the closet so no one can find you. Not because you're afraid of being hit - it probably stopped being about the pain a long time ago, and Leoben, well he adored you, right? - it's so you have some control over your own environment.
How old were you when your emotional development got seriously warped? When it stopped? Four? Six? Ten?
You're six years old and you're throwing a temper tantrum and you have the responsibilities and abilities of an adult. And it's ugly. And you need parents.
But you know what? I respect you for doing this on TV. For showing the fallout and damage a fucked up childhood will cause instead of using it as shorthand for "tortured emo angst" to make a character more appealing, the way TV so often does. Because you are behaving in an utterly unappealing fashion. This is worse, even, than your self-destructive behaviour in "Scar." I don't see how beating up a man about to die, trying to make him beg, for your own gratification, can be romanticised. I don't see how declaring that someone's gotta pay and you don't give a shit who, can be romanticised.
I don't like you very much right now. In fact, what I want to say to you, with compassion and respect, is, "Fuck you." Pass on to Ron D Moore that doing this to his leading lady is brave and he needs to stick to it. Tell him you're a good kid, but you're screaming until your lungs are fit to bleed, and what you really need are decent parents.
Until someone gives you structure and safety and a chance to be heard, you're just going to keep on acting out in a desperate attempt to control every single fucking thing.
Laura, I love you, even if I loved you slightly more in the sweater of Resistance Hotness, but I'm a little too upset to speak to you right now. So I'll talk to Zarek instead. I like him much less.
Okay, Zarek, I'm too tired to talk to you about the screw-up of your trials, and Roslin already did that smackdown. Plus you believe in it and that made for an interesting scene.
Why did you offer Laura the presidency like this? Why not elections? This is...not democracy. This is not what you held hostages on Colonial One for. Her first unelected presidency was far more legitimate than this backroom dealing to get her into place without the consent of the people.
We both know she's awesome at it. Do you honestly believe the fleet wouldn't elect her right now? Neither of these things is the point.
This isn't democracy. I want her back in the president's chair, I really do. But like this? I was so close to supporting her in stealing the election, because I respected her integrity in admitting what she was doing and not dressing it up. She was going to break the law and steal an election and (for reasons I outlined in a totally different post) I was on her side in her desires, I feared the same things. And I respected the choice because she didn't pretend it was anything other than it was.
But this? This is dangerous. This is presidents getting made in secret without the consent of the populous.
When did you change, Zarek? What the fuck did you do it for? If it's so that later, you can point to the shaky foundations of her presidency and cause trouble, I will have your eyes. Not that I think this is the case.
And Laura, yeah, I do need to talk to you - tell me you know how dodgy this is. Tell me you know how wrong it is to force Zarek to give up the chair of power by threatening to take away his military support. That's not something Adama has any right to do. That's a military coup, and tell me you haven't forgotten what happened the last time you and he played chicken. Tell me you know what you did.
Also, your general pardon, tell me that's going to come back and be a difficult issue in the coming episodes (in the coming season/s) and that it isn't going to get swept away under the carpet. Thank you.
(You know my threats are hollow, you have my heart, but I'm trying to take a stand her, and like Lee, I'd appreciate it if you let me make it and found it adorable and not idiotic.)
Chief, I feel for you, but look at what you did.
Anders, I'd feel more for your crisis of conscience if you'd a) used your "leaving in a big huff" scene to cast a "Not Guilty" vote and thus save a man's life, and b) hadn't been the one advocating the death of Ellen Tigh even though you knew the rescue was imminent. That kind of wipes your, "It's necessary during war, but now we should move on," credit.
Gaeta - for a long time I thought you were being stupid not telling people what was going on, but then I realised, how would you know who was getting your information? How would you know Kara wouldn't pass something like that on? I still think you should have been a bit more forthcoming, but thank you for pointing out that BALTAR WAS LEGALLY ELECTED.
Tigh, you continue to crumble in the exact way I thought you would. It's horrifying and beautiful to watch. I love that you're so adamant this is about justice and that you believe that. I don't have much else to say that I haven't already said to you, so just know that when you go down in flames, when you're completely irredeemable and you've screwed and fought with and pushed away everyone you ever cared about, when you hate yourself and there's no climbing out of the darkness, I'll still love you.
This episode was confusing to me, but I guess that's a good thing.
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no subject
Date: 2006-10-29 02:29 pm (UTC)I do wonder if it's going to play into the Tigh storyline. I can't imagine him being happy to find out guilty people are going to be able to walk free and go on with their lives and I see him lashing out at Laura and Adama for supporting her. And Ellen would have fallen under that pardon. She would have been safe. Yet, I don't know how he could have lived with her knowing what she did and was still willing to do? GAH! It's all so confusing.
no subject
Date: 2006-10-29 03:28 pm (UTC)Even if she was endangering the human species and the rescue, I always got the feeling that Saul was running the resistance because in his heart he was still military and needed a fight, and out of loyalty to Adama, more than for reasons like Roslin's - to save people, for some higher purpose. Traitors disgust him because of weakness and cowardice, neither of which were traits Ellen was displaying. Sure he treated her as any other traitor - you have to to keep an outfit like that going. But I don't for one second think he felt the internal disgust for her that he felt for other collaborators. So yeah, I think he would have forgiven her. I don't think he was ever really angry at her. Shocked, disappointed, horrified because he knew what was coming next, but not angry.
Or perhaps I give him too much credit... ;)
no subject
Date: 2006-10-29 09:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-10-30 01:27 pm (UTC)Ah, too true. I really wish we hadn't seen the end of her, but I wouldn't have her back as a cylon; too easy and would make her too...aware? for her actions to be as touching.
no subject
Date: 2006-10-29 05:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-10-30 01:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-09 05:39 am (UTC)*whispers: Laura Roslin*
yes, oh Laura -- but she has a WHITE SUIT and that means she can do whatever the frak she wants!
and I am also crossing my fingers for continuity re: the general pardon, because that solution is WAY too easy. and Laura Roslin doesn't deserve to have it easy.
no subject
Date: 2006-11-09 07:05 pm (UTC)*whispers: Laura Roslin*
Oddly, I think you're right at this point. Lee is a great character when he's on the Roslin Wing, and that Lee could handle Kara very well, but the emotionally attached Lee of Starbuck's Creek? He can sometimes deal with Starbuck wonderfully but all to often it ends up with guns and punching.
And last week my hopes for Adama acting as her parent were dashed.
So yeah, actually, genuinely, I think Roslin could do this. She has the distance from Kara to deal with her rationally and the strength to provide her with structure. It's just a shame they're not allowed to be on the set at the same time anymore...
(Also I think Helo could do a good job, but I think he's going to be busy with other things this season.)
no subject
Date: 2006-11-09 09:39 pm (UTC)ha, I'll convert you to Starbuck/Roslin yet! lord, I was so pissed at Adama. such a bad daddy! "I used to think of you as a daughter" and all -- the poor girl was just literally tortured for four months, doesn't anybody want to give her hugs/therapy/a break?!? (I really like what you said about Starbuck, btw.) Lee and Kara is always going to be a train wreck (although at this point that train wreck at least involves love and family, so it's better than nothing). and I agree re: Helo, he makes a great BFF. they just have so much distance right now since Helo (and also Lee) stayed with the fleet (but I also anticipate Helo being imminent single as soon as the shit hits the fan with Hera, so that would be a good time for them to turn back to each other). and hi, I'm also shipping Kara/Julia now -- strangely it makes a lot of sense, since Kacey is all Kara really had to hang onto in the end. but yes, Roslin! did you see my/