But I'm just not sure how to like...weight that, you know?
Yeah, totally, although I think--and I know you don't exactly mean it this way!--even trying to figure that out comes from this bizarre idea that you can add up what one is doing, and what the other is doing, and have one WIN, have one BE BETTER, particularly when it comes to things like diversity, or doing interesting things with the genre, or whatever. When really, it's just...well, the conversation really has to be broader than just stacking up things on each side? And pitting them against each other just makes one seem progressive, when they BOTH have so far to go, and totally changes the tenor of the conversation to a petty one instead of a substantive one? It's like we let them pit us against each other, so we forget how dismal they both can be.
I do wonder how much of this comes from comics being SO HUGE that fairly new or casual fans can only take in part of it at once. Like I tried a little Marvel and then kind of just didn't continue, b/c it was TOO MUCH, and I had to triage what I wanted to pay attention to. And DC has Diana, so I read Diana-related things, and there's very little of my money or attention left over for other stuff. And to newish fans, superheroes may LOOK like what the publishers do as a whole, and you actually have to be somewhat conversant in the structure of the industry and the output as a whole to even understand how Vertigo is related to DC, or what else Marvel is doing besides superheroes, and etc. And MCU has brought in a lot of people to the convo who may be fairly new to comics, or fairly casual comics fans.
So it feels easy and neat to line up superheroes vs. superheroes, talk about the ones a particular person is familiar with, and make a pronouncement damning the other publisher. And then fans of the other publisher, who are almost certainly MORE familiar with it than you are, have the same reaction to your dismissing those things. And in that simplistic context, even saying "well yeah but DC also has Vertigo" or something FEELS LIKE A DEFENSIVE MOVE, and sometimes it totally IS a defensive move. But sometimes it's just saying "well but here's a thing that exists too that should be part of the discussion of what exists and why it matters."
tl;dr the structure of the whole conversation can be really false, but even trying to point that out can reinforce it by making you feel like you're just defending your chosen publisher.
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Date: 2014-08-06 12:37 am (UTC)Yeah, totally, although I think--and I know you don't exactly mean it this way!--even trying to figure that out comes from this bizarre idea that you can add up what one is doing, and what the other is doing, and have one WIN, have one BE BETTER, particularly when it comes to things like diversity, or doing interesting things with the genre, or whatever. When really, it's just...well, the conversation really has to be broader than just stacking up things on each side? And pitting them against each other just makes one seem progressive, when they BOTH have so far to go, and totally changes the tenor of the conversation to a petty one instead of a substantive one? It's like we let them pit us against each other, so we forget how dismal they both can be.
I do wonder how much of this comes from comics being SO HUGE that fairly new or casual fans can only take in part of it at once. Like I tried a little Marvel and then kind of just didn't continue, b/c it was TOO MUCH, and I had to triage what I wanted to pay attention to. And DC has Diana, so I read Diana-related things, and there's very little of my money or attention left over for other stuff. And to newish fans, superheroes may LOOK like what the publishers do as a whole, and you actually have to be somewhat conversant in the structure of the industry and the output as a whole to even understand how Vertigo is related to DC, or what else Marvel is doing besides superheroes, and etc. And MCU has brought in a lot of people to the convo who may be fairly new to comics, or fairly casual comics fans.
So it feels easy and neat to line up superheroes vs. superheroes, talk about the ones a particular person is familiar with, and make a pronouncement damning the other publisher. And then fans of the other publisher, who are almost certainly MORE familiar with it than you are, have the same reaction to your dismissing those things. And in that simplistic context, even saying "well yeah but DC also has Vertigo" or something FEELS LIKE A DEFENSIVE MOVE, and sometimes it totally IS a defensive move. But sometimes it's just saying "well but here's a thing that exists too that should be part of the discussion of what exists and why it matters."
tl;dr the structure of the whole conversation can be really false, but even trying to point that out can reinforce it by making you feel like you're just defending your chosen publisher.
In conclusion, SENSATION COMICS.