Battlestar Galactica: The Son Also Rises

[beccatoria]

Late because I had...episode procurement issues... ;)

This episode was full of beautifully moving moments - the pen, the story about love, Adama stating that he's through giving Lee orders (oh did I love that moment; it felt like their relationship of old, not the more angsty, posturing scenes of later, just the cold, hard, blunt Adama facts), Roslin behind the glass, Lee and Romo's discussions, Anders on the Viper, Lee calling Racetrack Starbuck - all these beautiful moments underscored by a horrible knowledge that they're all wrong. Each one of them is saying something, but all the evidence is lies. It's like learning the most important lesson of your life and then realising your teacher is a screwed-up bastard who's manipulated you and fabricated all the principles underpining the lesson. It's like learning about beauty from the devil. Or something. I can't explain why I feel that way, but I do.

I should be more detailed, I know. Talk about the truth of Romo's love story even though it was intended to deceive. Roslin's world falling apart as she spies on a witness. The beauty of Gaius' imagined love for Six through the lie of the pen. Lee's sorrow revealed by accident and his falling out with his father being real and inevitable but the catalyst being Romo's manipulation. There...I guess maybe that was detail enough.

I think the episode successfully said all the things I want to say about the rights of individuals to trials. I think there was some interesting disucssion in there about what you do when someone isn't getting a fair trial, how far will you break the system and play dirty yourself?

It's an interesting question usually asked in a one sided way. If our sympathies lie clearly with the accused then we'll support the dirty tricks aspect; if with the defendent we'll be appalled. By getting Lee to make that journey, he takes us with him - and it's a strange feeling to see it from the other side. It's the problem with playing devil's advocate; if you don't commit to it and use every tactic at your disposal, are you disrespecting the system? I'll be interested to see what I make of the trial and verdict, but they've certainly set it up nicely.

I enjoyed seeing Roslin conceding Lee's point about Adama. It's a point I agree with.

I enjoyed Romo Lampkin's scenery-chewing accent which I'm going to assume was Aerilon mixed with...Irish?

Anders damn near broke me. Oh, that boy is beautiful and I don't mean his looks. When I first met him I was so utterly indifferent to him. But Michael Trucco proved that he is an extremely talented actor here. From the perfect drunken coin tossing to the brief, perfect sob, to the way it was all cut off so quickly with that sharp, real fall from the viper and the broken leg. Like Starbuck's life, I guess, if I wanted to be philosophical.

Lee - FINALLY you have an episode about who you really are. But asta77 will talk about that with far more eloquence than I, I think.

Adama continues to annoy me with his hypocrisy re: the trial and his attendence at Six's interview. Though I loved his saying he was through giving Lee orders, because he basically capitulated to his son but in a very Adama way. It was much more like their season one relationship I think. I can't express why properly though.

Baltar is actually going mad. Awesome.

I have a whole bunch of nitpicks. I wish I didn't. I don't think the episode deserves them, but maybe that's why I have them. Slight, pointless moments that confused me or pulled me out of the moment. Perhaps I think the episode was so good I'm less tolerant of these matters?

So, they are:

1. Jamie Bamber was so wonderful in the scene where he accidentally calls Racetrack "Starbuck" that I didn't realise what he'd said until a second too late and the impact was all the greater for it. But the impact was lessened by the unnecessary and very amateur whisper "ZOMG! Did he say Starbuck?" The silence would have been more powerful.

2. I'm only half going to add Captain Kelly. On the one hand I do think that he was an "easy out". On the other hand this episode had so much going on maybe that was the best choice. And his speech at the end was a lot more powerful and understandable than I was expecting.

3. Romo Lampkin's character. In general, I loved him. And I understand what I think the writers were trying to do with him (see above - that whole honest goal with providing Baltar a decent defense, with ignoble means - that whole lying and manipulating). But I wasn't sure his opening line was worthy of the character. Also I don't get why he stole stuff. I like the idea that he's a pickpocket and using that to his advantage (like the pen from Baltar and then the guards), but the other things I don't really get. I mean, okay, the prosecuting lawyer drags her heels - what is this meant to say about her and why does he need to keep the shoe? It seemed like an idiosynchratic character trait tacked on to a) provide a means of implicating Kelly (why would he have stolen from him anyway? It's not like Kelly was "important"), and b) give him "character" - which he already had more than enough of. Or possible I was just too horrified by the theft of the glasses to really concentrate on the justification (that and in that scene I found the character harder to understand). One of the things (seriously) that I always think about when thinking about the Colonial Fleet is, "Shit - if I were there, what would I do if my glasses broke! I couldn't replace them!" I don't actually mind wearing glasses, but I do sometimes feel uncomfortable due to being so utterly dependent on such a fragile piece of equipment.

4. Did Romo Lampkin really have to know Joseph Adama personally and "hate" him (I thought that turn of phrase was a bit trite, honestly; I could see the reveal coming a mile away)? I really think it would have been more powerful if he'd known him by reputation and had learned a lot from his book and, ultimately, knew the guy maybe better than Lee did. I mean, it's a hell of a coincidence, knowing his grandpa - I'd think that sort of thing should be amazing in the remains of the fleet.

5. Why the sunglasses? I mean, they look cool, but seriously, I spent half the episode wondering if he was blind.

6. Cally. I want to like her, but I'm slowly deciding I don't. It's not just hypocrisy - which isn't hypocrisy really if she sees very clear delineations between human and cylon and their various rights - it's that I don't think the actress is all that great.

And that's it. Summing up? Far too many nitpicks for such a great episode; I am a bad fan. Also - I'm now psyched for the trial. What other truths will we discover only to have their wonder soured by the bad taste of their deceptive, screwed-up underpinnings? What will we learn from the devil next week?

Comments

[asta77.livejournal.com]

It's the problem with playing devil's advocate; if you don't commit to it and use every tactic at your disposal, are you disrespecting the system?

Lampkin is definitely a do whatever you have to to get your client off attorney. I don't think he finds any of his underhanded dealings and manipulations objectionable because he believes, rightly so, that Baltar will not get a fair trial unless he does what he is doing. It's still unbelieavble to me that Adama is allowed to be one of the judges when he's privy to all the witness interviews.

Your nitpicks are all justified. Lee's slipping and saying Starbuck and the pilots reaction seemed melodramatic and forced to me even as it made me uncomfortable which I think was the goal.

They made Lampkin too quirky - the cat, the glasses, the kleptomania - when it wasn't necessary. Then again, maybe the point was that he uses all that to deflect attention from how brilliant he is. I think both Roslin and Adama were confident that he would easily lose Baltar's case.

Cally needs to shut up and die. I do think she is being badly written, but the actress is probably the weakest of the ensemble. She just doesn't have the dramatic weight to pull off the ballsy bitch role and make Tyrol suddenly so...spineless?

You where glasses too! I can't see a damn thing without mine. I know how you and Laura feel. :)

I watch too many law shows!

[nightxade.livejournal.com]

I posted below about what I feel Lampkin's goal is. Ultimately, a lawyer wants to have their client found not guilty. I don't think Lampkin is stupid enough to believe that possible here. So the lawyer will aim for something far more important: to prove that his client is not guilty of what he is being charged with. That by no means implies that he will go free as a bird. It means that his final punishment is postponed and he goes on to another trial. It's all about the angle it's being approached at. The Prosecution will go the easy route: He is evil and helped the Cylons kill us! That would have been a worthy case against the original series' Gaius. But here, we have a completely different Gaius that we're not quite sure we should be loving, hating, pitying...

I think both Roslin and Adama were confident that he would easily lose Baltar's case.

Right. The flaw of the prosecution is that they always come out like a bull and attack from the obvious angle, believing it's an easy win. The defense, when they know their client is guilty, has to use a lot more creative tactics to get the job done. The prosecution is never ready for these angles because they don't play devil's advocate enough.

They made Lampkin too quirky - the cat, the glasses, the kleptomania - when it wasn't necessary. Then again, maybe the point was that he uses all that to deflect attention from how brilliant he is.

The cat and the glasses were annoying, but I loved the kleptomania, which I don't write off as merely that. He's collecting people. Very important elements about each person.

It's still unbelieavble to me that Adama is allowed to be one of the judges when he's privy to all the witness interviews.

I hate that Roslin is permitting it, especially when Adama is being so immature about it. And removing Lee because he didn't want to see his son on the opposite side of the court room? Hurray for "randomly" choosing objective judges. Particularly one who claims he can make an ethical decision after his ethical torturing of the prisoner. Gah! hatehatehate

You where glasses too! I can't see a damn thing without mine.

Is there a club for us? I can't really wear my glasses because I hate losing my peripheral vision. My eyes are horrible otherwise. Contacts it is.

Re: I watch too many law shows!

[asta77.livejournal.com]

And removing Lee because he didn't want to see his son on the opposite side of the court room? Hurray for "randomly" choosing objective judges. Particularly one who claims he can make an ethical decision after his ethical torturing of the prisoner.

I think I lost count of Adama proclomations that made NO sense. And his son who has no law degree isn't qualified to help an attorney, but Adama is capable of interpreting the law because of some pins he wears. One cliffhanger I would love to see is Adama being evicerated in court and having to deal with the humiliation next season.

Re: I watch too many law shows!

[nightxade.livejournal.com]

Perhaps that's Adama's very fear? He said he did not want to see his son on the other side of the courtroom. Perhaps because he *knows* how much Lee could be like Joseph and, moreover, how Lee could and would confront him and call him on all of his hypocrisy. I originally read that line as Adama not wanting the embarassment of having his son on the "wrong" side, but maybe it's because Adama's concerned that Lee will show Adama for what he really is.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

---(0)-(0)--- <--- the glasses of command. Back when I thought Adama was sooo cool in the mini series, I was so psyched that he had special glasses that he seemed to put on when he was being commanding. Alas, now, they are the glasses of hypocrisy. WHAT HAPPENED, ADAMA! I LOVED YOU! *sigh*

Clearly I also really, really need sleep.

Lampkin is definitely a do whatever you have to to get your client off attorney. I don't think he finds any of his underhanded dealings and manipulations objectionable because he believes, rightly so, that Baltar will not get a fair trial unless he does what he is doing.

And I actually agree with him in that assessment. I guess what I wonder is, what Lampkin's personal opinion is on Baltar's guilt or innocence. I mean...realistically, I think that doesn't matter to him. As opposed to Lee, who I think it matters very much to, but he also sees himself as performing a duty beyond his personal opinions. But I guess I'd just like to get inside Lampkin's head a little more; does he figure that if the case is susceptible to his "foul play" then it's not watertight enough for a good conviction? Does he honestly not care that this man might have collaborated to end his species? I don't expect an answer, nor do I think the character fails in any way for not providing us one - I just can't help wondering.

They made Lampkin too quirky - the cat, the glasses, the kleptomania - when it wasn't necessary. Then again, maybe the point was that he uses all that to deflect attention from how brilliant he is. I think both Roslin and Adama were confident that he would easily lose Baltar's case.

I'd really like that, but he keeps his kleptomania secret from everyone except Lee. I certainly think that his cat was a distraction technique though, as is, quite possibly, his aloof sunglassed demeanour.

Cally needs to shut up and die.

I dread her being a cylon. Then we'll never be rid of her...

[asta77.livejournal.com]

Alas, now, they are the glasses of hypocrisy.

I think we need that on an icon.

[nightxade.livejournal.com]

It's like learning about beauty from the devil. Or something. I can't explain why I feel that way, but I do.

Ahh but the devil is the best person to teach you of beauty. I believe I've said it in your journal before: the devil manipulates with the truth. And Badger (yeah yeah Romo) was a beautiful devil with his truth. He quoted Gaius' words exactly to Six. Of course, we know Gaius didn't say it like *that* ...

To quote from Star Trek, the Undiscovered Country:

Vulcan chick who's name I can't remember right now "A lie?"
Spock "An ommission."

Lee's sorrow revealed by accident and his falling out with his father being real and inevitable but the catalyst being Romo's manipulation.

His manipulation is brilliant. So quiet and subtle. "But you've already had so much stolen from you..." We're obviously dealing with a person who can not only read a lot from a person's items (I loved what he picked up on from Adama's brass), but apparently can peer right into their soul! OH and here's your grandfather's book ... and the note at the end to Gaius? WOW.

Baltar is actually going mad. Awesome.

Mad? I'd say stir crazy. His death awaits him, either around a corner or at the end of the trial. He's been trapped in a cage. He's been tortured. There is madness, surely, but not completely. Free him now, send him away with Caprica Six some place nice and he'll be just fine again.

I think the episode successfully said all the things I want to say about the rights of individuals to trials.

I don't appreciate Cally being the one to have said it -_-

I enjoyed seeing Roslin conceding Lee's point about Adama. It's a point I agree with.

Absolutely. Adama's response was childish. Did he say that he sat in on the prosecutor's interrogation? If so, why does he have the right to do so as 1/5 of the tribunal crew. Where are the other 4. For that matter, WHO are the other 4?

By getting Lee to make that journey, he takes us with him - and it's a strange feeling to see it from the other side. It's the problem with playing devil's advocate; if you don't commit to it and use every tactic at your disposal, are you disrespecting the system?

Is it devil's advocate to ensure that Gaius has a fair trial? Are they seeking to prove his innocence? Or to save his life? Gaius himself made a very important point to Gaeta: I had a gun to my head on New Caprica. The art of defending a murderer is not necessarily to set them free, but to perhaps lessen the charges and prolong their freedom from absolute incarceration. Hmmm... do you watch Boston Legal? I don't want to spoil you if you don't, but I do recommend you read page 11 of this episode transcript where the crew have to defend a doctor who, by law, is clearly guilty of first degree murder, having euthanized dying hurricane victims in New Orleans.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Ahh but the devil is the best person to teach you of beauty. I believe I've said it in your journal before: the devil manipulates with the truth. And Badger (yeah yeah Romo) was a beautiful devil with his truth. He quoted Gaius' words exactly to Six. Of course, we know Gaius didn't say it like *that* ...

I agree. I think I'd say the devil's the best person to teach you about beauty because he had it, and lost it; he gave it up. We define ourselves in opposition to things so often - by deciding what we're not. Maybe it makes sense to learn about things like beauty and trust and integrity from people, places and situations that embody the opposite.

I've heard the relationship between God and Lucifer described as the end of a love-affair before (whether romantic or not - that there was love and it was betrayed, by whichever side). It makes me think very much of Romo's Badger's words (and beautiful they were), "I thought if I could get over her, I could get over anything."

It's a theme that carries over into other parts of the episode, though Romo the devil Badger is the catalyst.

For that matter, WHO are the other 4?

Well, one is the captain of the Gideon which is a ship where Tigh accidentally massacred a bunch of civilians over some tinned coffee during his drunken reign of terror temporary command. Which makes me think he might have a staunchly anti-military bent; could be interesting if it means he's more pro-civilian, and perhaps Gaius? Since Roslin is by now a more militarily solid political figure?

Are they seeking to prove his innocence? Or to save his life? Gaius himself made a very important point to Gaeta: I had a gun to my head on New Caprica. The art of defending a murderer is not necessarily to set them free, but to perhaps lessen the charges and prolong their freedom from absolute incarceration.

Excellent point. Not one I had considered before. I'll check out that transcript and possibly even the show when I have more time and am not so tired. :)

[nightxade.livejournal.com]

I'll check out that transcript and possibly even the show when I have more time and am not so tired. :)

I've quickly realize that the show is very templated for each episode (Simon says it sounds exactly like Ally McBeal, and it's created by the same people). I can see it getting boring very quickly, if not for Bill Shatner and James Spader, usually in the last half of the episode where Bill gives James some advice that makes you really think and James alters his strategy and then you get these incredible closing remarks that are just whoa.

[nightxade.livejournal.com]

Part 2!



1. Got the point, but it came off as a little forced. He was being too sappy at that point, to me. But yay Helo for CAG!
2. It bothered me that Adama was so quick to lessen security now that we found the guilty party. Surely no one else would build bombs to destroy Gaius or his defendants. Adama kept beating up on Lee for his poor security work.
3. It provided a plot device, certainly, but I think it also was important for his character. If you want to pick on a useless character element, I'd go with the cat for now, lol. This character is very good at reading people and he does so through objects (among other things). Or rather, through their connection to objects. I loved the packratting. He's not merely a pickpocket collecting things at random. He's collecting very specific and important elements of people. He would have taken Kara's picture. But he didn't need to hold on to and study it to understand more about Lee. Plus we already have Lee's reaction to the book by his grandfather. Objects. He has put them to very powerful use. I loved it.
4. I rather like the idea of him knowing him personally and hating him, but respecting his teachings. It's so easy for people to dismiss the ideas etc of a person they hate. And isn't that what we have with Gaius too?
5. They needed to go. Interesting at first, but now they are just silly.
6. Yup. She's not that great and nor is the character.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

3. This character is very good at reading people and he does so through objects (among other things). Objects. He has put them to very powerful use. I loved it.

Nice summation. While I guess I understood he was picking up people's traits through their objects, I think I would have preferred it if it'd been a little clearer what he learned about Laura through her glasses, or what it said about the prosecuting attorney that she dragged her heels. My favourite part of that speech and the most moving part was what he said about Adama and his button. And then subsequently what he said about Lee having had too much stolen from him already. Those bits were powerful. But the other pieces of petty theft...maybe they were too removed for me to make the connection? It seemed less like he was reading people from their items, and more like he was stealing their items because he was an "idiosynchratic kleptomaniac" and then sometimes could tell things about the previous owner.

Which now I think about it, is a ludicrous interpretation when compared to the more elegant solution of, "he steals because it tells him about someone." But...still, that was the way it read for me initially on screen. As I said, I don't think the sound in that scene helped much either. Though it might have been nice if they'd gone for a more character-based approach (i.e. stated more explicitly what he learned about Roslin & the prosecutor), that he'd stolen the detonator from Kelly on pure instinct, knowing it was the core of who Kelly was lately. (Yes, I know I could interpret it that way anyway, but I don't feel it was stated clearly enough on screen for me to be sure it was their intention).

Um, I guess that jumble is mean to say, thanks for interpreting the kleptomania into a much more consistant and moving character trait. :)

. I rather like the idea of him knowing him personally and hating him, but respecting his teachings. It's so easy for people to dismiss the ideas etc of a person they hate. And isn't that what we have with Gaius too?

Great point. And the people who don't dismiss Gaius' ideas are the ones who don't really understand who he is.

Yup. She's not that great and nor is the character.

I quite liked her in the beginning when she was the young, scared deck gang girl who only ever joined up to be a dentist and had a big, obvious crush on the Chief who only loved her like a sister. And she got about three or four lines max an episode. But...yeah. The actress isn't strong enough to carry the part, maybe? Maybe it's just that Cally grew up after the attacks, and she didn't grow up into a very nice person. Which happens, I guess. People turn out mean and spiteful.

[nightxade.livejournal.com]

3. Nah not ludicrous. The cat to me was totally hokey and an obvious plot device until they prove me wrong, but the kleptomania -- well, I'm allowing myself to see it as more than just a quirky thing and giving the writers the benefit of the doubt. I could be totally wrong, or better yet, they are reading my post and going "erm.. yeah! that's totally what we meant!" *rewrites next episode*

I think they needed him to have the button and Kara's picture (which he didn't keep, but he obviously initially stole) to establish how intuitive and observant he was. They needed him to have the pen, to establish the power of mere objects over people. They needed him to have that piece from Kelly for the sake of plot. Then the rest kind of exists to show that this is an important part of him and his character. As you said, the consistancy.

I don't think it was a mere plot device to get to the Kelly conviction. I think it is an important revelation of who he is. Important too that he revealed it to Lee. Of course, we know now how he manipulates with such a sweet snake tongue ... so the revelation to Lee was obviously part of that.

I do wish for a clearer reasoning re: the glasses and the shoe, but I've got my own theories:

The glasses: Badger wears his to hide. To deceive. The fact that they are shades makes that obvious. Roslin's are probably necessary, but they still serve a similar purpose. Not to mention, when she puts them on, you get that nice kind teacher apperance. Someone surely you can trust. Badger likes her without the glasses... because he can see the mask off.

The shoe: She drags her feet. I think he meant that both literally and figureatively. Perhaps an insight into her overall personality and approach to the case? Attack hard and fast, and she won't be able to keep up?

Okay okay I'm reaching on that one lol. But that's initially what came to mind.