BSG: Revelations
Jun. 15th, 2008 06:50 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
beccatoriaSo, I watched this Saturday morning, then spent the rest of the weekend going to a Bruce Springsteen concert (which was awesome, and he dedicated the encore to Tim Russert), playing insanely cracktacular games that didn't really help my non-crack objectivity re: this episode, and visiting my aunt in west wales, and my cousin blew my mind. None of that is really relevant, I just thought I'd tell you all! :)
But, on with the show!
This wasn't really a thinking episode. It wasn't an episode about self-discovery or self-examination or faith or destiny or education or, even, revelation, despite the title. It was an episode about fallout. It was an episode about disappointment.
Sure there were actual revelations. The Four. Earth. But that's not what it was about. It was about reaching the end of your journey and discovering it's worse than where you were before. The crushing sense of betrayal that you went through so much crap: the things and people you sent to their deaths, the things and people you left behind, the things and people you loved who turned out dead or destroyed or cylons, the things and people you betrayed and the terrible gambles you took with their fates. You bet everything to get to Earth because it was a divine fucking mandate and there is no surer bet than that, and you didn't roll the hard six, you rolled snake eyes.
The end of the episode: that's where the story is. The rest is just getting there.
I was surprised and oddly touched by Baltar's gratitude to Laura and her reluctance and shyness and inability to say either 'you're welcome,' or 'never speak to me again.'
I feel bad for Tory. I believe that 1) she genuinely wanted to make sure the President got her medicine, and also it genuinely was safer for the fleet than continuing to piss off D'anna, and 2) in her situation you ride the cylon train or you face a lifetime of self-denial and to be honest, you make that sort of jump, and you have to really commit to it. To quote Athena, you pick your side and you stick, otherwise you end up with nothing, no home, no family, no life to call your own. Tory picked, and she chose not to be the cylon among humans spending a lifetime in apology, or the cylon among cylon spending a lifetime in ambivalent guilt. I think her brutality is borne of desperation. I think her denial of Roslin is borne of a need to cast off something, to make some sort of grand gesture, to reassure herself that this is her home. To embrace the one group of people who will validate her existence as a blessing. HOWEVER, 3) I think she may be losing the plot. Rather, I think she lost it a while ago, and that makes me sad.
OH SAUL TIGH.
I started loving you during New Caprica, and somehow you have become one of my absolute favourites. You're like my anti-Oldama. I remember way back in season one when I liked you in that, "oh, interesting issues, interesting plot potential, but you'll never be a favourite," way. When he was a drunk ass and I had that revelation after half a dozen episodes that it takes acting talent to pull off that sort of character but that it's probably a rather thankless job since the role (at the time) didn't really include display-piece material. And...I tried to pay a bit more attention to him, but even during his tenure during that whole martial law incident at the start of season two it was - how can I say it? - he was interesting to watch because of the chaos he was creating, not because he, himself, was interesting. He was still an alcoholic who made dumb mistakes and who usually made you want to bang your head against the wall rather than try to understand on a complex level. Because at the time, he was probably the most static of all the characters. There was little suggestion that he would change or ever have a storyline more interesting than Saul Tigh gets drunk and is manipulated by his wife. Again.
OH BUT SEASON THREE.
And now. Yeah. Nothing will eclipse Laura Roslin as my absolute favourite. But damn if Tigh isn't climbing the ranks quickly and no one is more surprised than my season-one-and-two-era-self.
But yeah, Tigh in this episode. SO NOBLE. SO AWESOME. SO HILARIOUS WHEN BILL REFUSED TO BELIEVE HIM. Because honestly, I wouldn't have either. I would have been like, "Yeah, this is another of those 'music in the walls of the ship' and 'confessing to murder on the witness stand,' and 'knocking up the prisoner' moments, isn't it?"
But for real, Saul Tigh's crazy, bug-eyed messiah impression when he throws his arms wide and declares himself to be one of the final five and how Adama has to threaten to "throw MEEEEEEEE out an airlock!" was just so much better/more hilarious/more moving than any messiah impression Baltar has ever given us.
Standing straight-backed in the airlock. Amazing. Finally, for the first time, Saul Tigh has discovered the man he wants to be, and is being that man, absolutely, unequivocally, with such integrity. It's effortless. It's beautiful.
It gets taken away from him.
What do you do when you miss the moment you discover you existed for? It's the question of every single person in the Colonial Fleet. Of Romo Lampkin: he didn't die with his wife and daughters. Of Lee Adama: he didn't die floating in space. Of Kara Thrace: what do you do after your destiny? After you've died and come back and convinced everyone to follow you on some madcap chase for Earth, and you come back with cylon allies - what do you do then? Go back to being CAG? It's the question of Laura Roslin. What happens after you stop being the dying leader? The Fleet abandons the search for Earth and lands itself on a snake pit called New Caprica. What happens if you're not the dying leader at all, and you do set foot on Earth, and it's covered in ashes?
Saul Tigh had the perfect, redemptive moment to die. But he didn't. And he's still him: the alcoholic spouse-murdering one-eyed robot XO. He doesn't get to die saving the Fleet, proving his loyalty and worth, to himself as much as to anyone else. He survives. And he's the drunk man, alone, the drunk who has to deal with his screwed-up robot girlfriend and the loss of the only place he's known in his life.
Instead of proving his worth by dying for the Fleet, he's saved because his worth was actually tied to finding Earth. His worth was tied to the most crushing disappointment of all. It's two weeks too late to be talking about sine qua non, but really, Earth is the Fleet's. And if the episode Sine Qua Non was about finding yours and holding onto it (and The Hub dealt with that question for Laura), then this is the episode about losing it.
What the hell am I supposed to do now? It's Saul's question. Now they're at Earth, it's everyone's question. It's always the question, once immediate survival has been dealt with.
Though you know whose question it isn't? Bill Adama's. Maybe that's why I feel like he's trapped in a world where everyone he loves is transforming in strange ways he can't understand, and can't stop by demanding it.
Bill's never lost his sine qua non and been forced to turn into something new to deal with it. Every time it's been threatened, something - usually his own blind obstinacy and (apparently correct) belief that if he refuses enough times, the universe will capitulate - saves him from having to confront it.
Until now. Or at least, for a span of a few hours he thinks that's the case (though really, it still isn't, maybe, if he can get over Tigh being a cylon). Honestly, what's his sine qua non really? He has to consider nuking his son, and he's stoic. He deals with Kara's death and he cries and breaks his ship then gets back to work. He has to deal with nuking Laura on the baseship and again, stoic. But when Tigh is "lost" to him?
AHAHAAHAAHAHAAHAAHAA!
OH BILL ADAMA NEVER CHANGE.
I love his old man love for Tigh. Because - the best thing about this entire damn episode - without question - is that drunken crazy drooling state he gets himself into?
TAKES HIM FIFTEEN MINUTES.
It happens in the time it takes to escort Tigh from Adama's quarters to the airlock. And I don't think that they finally sent Lee to check on Adama after hours of waiting for instructions since D'anna was airlocking hostages every fifteen minuts. So either Adama got himself into a state where his son had to drag him across the floor in fifteen minutes, or he got himself into a state like that while people were being executed instead of doing something about it.
OH ADAMA NEVER CHANGE!
I've discovered my zen about you, and now I love you, Bill. Never, ever change.
Though I have to say, much as I found it hilarious, I turned on a dime when Bill started gasping, inconsolable about all those people. Sure, Tigh's revelation may have been the catalyst, but EJO was spot on with that delivery and it suddenly spun the entire scene out into perhaps the first time we've seen Adama shaken to his core. It's all going to hell, and it's not just about losing his friend, there are all those people he sent to die. He didn't know that was what he was doing at the time, but it was and damn it, Adama preached, from day ONE, in both the mini series in response to the First Cylon War and in response to the Olympic Carrier incident, that you make your choices and you live with them either way. But this is the first damn time I've ever seen him really feel the weight of that, rather than dealing with the weight of it by ignoring it, suppressing his emotions.
And seeing Lee step up, take care of his dad, tell him he was going to fix it and kissing him on the head was...quite beautiful. Though Adama will never mention this again. But it was a great moment for Lee's character.
So yeah, I find the reasons and ways Adama got into that state hucking filarious, but the end of it was...powerful, actually. All those people. What has he done? It's all right, it's all right: Lee will take care of it. Because he makes those choices now, and he doesn't flinch, or there'll be more kids in body bags going out that airlock.
SPEAKING OF: LEE AND LAURA MADE UP! OH HOW HAPPY WAS I THAT LAURA REMEMBERED HER LESSON FROM LAST EPISODE OUGHT TO APPLY TO MORE THAN JUST BILL ADAMA! I loved how proud she was of him. And how grateful and relieved he seemed to have her approval. Because she's right, he did a really good job.
Re: the metaphysical cycle of time. I have no problem with this being a repeating cycle, or with something orchestrating it, but I found the whole viper thing a bit weird. Mainly because the idea that it magically changed and suddenly started picking up this message seemed like a bit of a...massively weird deus ex machina. Worse than Starbuck appearing in a new viper, I hear you ask? Yes, actually, because that was so huge it tied into mythic archetypes. A magically changing piece of machinery is a bit weirder. Because it stops being a never ending series of coincidences and subtly manipulated causes and effects and starts being RANDOM MAGIC EVENTS! So I prefer the idea that the beacon was only just activated by someone/thing, or that the viper previously wasn't in range to pick up the signal, or that the signal had been travelling through space for years and years and only just got this far. Basically anything that means that the signal would have been there regardless had anyone thought to look at it, it's just the Final Four were like...road signs, or alarm clocks.
Though again, do the Final Four come from Earth or not? Oy, I'm just going to wait for RDM's explanation for now. Though DAMN, 2009? WTF? It's just... I'm sort of ready to have my life back. Like, it'll fade into the background again in a few months, I know. And I'll wait and it'll all be fine. But I've made my peace with the fact this is the last season and...I want to be able to look at it all. I want to draw conclusions from the whole series. Dammit, I'm ready and I have to wait another six months at least.
Regarding the ending and the truce. Wow.
Well firstly, I loved that D'anna actually said, it doesn't matter: they'll never forgive us for the twelve colonies. Because it's true. I mean, I know that literally, you could forgive, but I don't believe it'll ever happen.
But that doesn't mean I don't believe this truce or that Lee would offer up the information or that human and cylon can wander around the surface of Earth oddly trusting, bound by the wounding revelation that it wasn't worth it.
Because when given that information, practically, it makes most sense for D'anna, for the time being, to co-operate. She has what she wants. She still has a final card up her sleeve (the Fifth). She knows that three of the Four won't willingly come with her and hurting the hostages would make them even less willing. Killing the hostages would provoke an all out combat that would probably obliterate both parties. There's nothing to piss over anymore and D'anna has a slight advantage (the Fifth).
Because it comes down to this: the Rebel Basestar is the Cylon equivalent of the rag-tag Fleet. A single warship, wounded, on the run from an impossible number of enemies, reduced to a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of their former strength, with no home to return to. Because the ones, fours and fives may not be able to resurrect, but they still have basestars and basestars and basestars and twelve colonies full of models (perhaps even versions of the twos, sixes and eights. While the rebels spoke for all of their model number it seems unlikely EVERY baseship became segregated and was destroyed. After that one ship went rogue, I could either imagine all the other versions of that model being boxed, or I could imagine them deciding that the actions of their siblings were regrettable and beginning to tow the party line again because they'd rather live).
But I'm digressing. The point is: the rebel basestar has taken up the fight on, sort of, the side of the Colonials. At least in that they are actively opposing the impossible Cylon war machine. They wounded themselves horribly, in front of, in conjunction with the Colonials. It's not forgiveness. But on this tiny scale it is, perhaps, a truce. A tiny measure of shared experience that means they can wander the scarred face of Earth and realise that every one of them is experiencing the same horrifically bitter disappointment.
I don't know what to make of the ending itself. It was mildly surprising but not utterly shocking, though perhaps I should have been shocked. A civilised Earth of either ancient past or far-flung future would have been...too easy. They would have stayed, and it's only half way through the season. I mean, I believe this is Earth. But it had to be "not right" somehow. And this makes sense, story-wise.
Though I have no idea why it's like this.
I also don't know what's going on with Roslin standing on it. The dying leader isn't supposed to set foot in the promised land, I thought. Perhaps Earth is not the promised land. But then again, introducing the secret "other" promised land at this point would be lame. So it's a tricky balancing act. They can't go back to the twelve colonies because the other cylon are still there. And even though they're mortal now, they're horribly outnumbered and I refuse to believe that one damaged basestar and one damaged battlestar have a hope in hell of reclaiming twelve occupied worlds.
The best thing Farscape ever did was find John Crichton a way home to Earth in (oh snap!) the middle of the final, fourth season, and then have him carry on after that. So carrying on after Earth has the potential to be incredible. But then again...that same question: What the hell am I supposed to do now? John Crichton already knew the answer. Knew it so well he never, ever intended to stay. The Fleet doesn't. So I'm...intrigued to find out.
I wouldn't have liked it to end right here, because there are too many unanswered questions: why is Earth like this? Who is the Fifth? What's up with the Final Five? But at the same time - like the end of season three - I could have lived with it.
The last montage is...beautiful. I find myself fascinated by the shot choices. Tory reaching out to Sam is an interesting choice. Kara is shot closer to Leoben than either Lee or Sam. I loved Laura's delivery of the scene's only word. Caprica walking to Tigh in a shot that shows her not walking towards Baltar is clearly deliberate. And I was grateful to see her if only briefly because I'm a little miffed we didn't get a scene with her and Tigh cus...boy that's a conversation I'm a little pissed I missed out on. Also yay! She has a jacket and has been let out of jail! I really wish that I weren't vaguely invested in this Frankenstein's Monster of a relationship because it cannot possibly end well, and yet, I find myself oddly touched by it. I want to believe she's not just jumping on the next desperate chance to get someone to love her; I want to believe that Tigh could ever love her for who she is, not who he wishes she'd be. The cold, hard facts are that it's a horrifically dysfunctional relationship full of secrets and violence, and I'm not sure it can be fixed in a way that won't be horribly unbelievable or horribly sexist, even though I want it to be fixed desperately. I AM DOOMED.
Also: 2009?! I AM DOOMED.
But, on with the show!
This wasn't really a thinking episode. It wasn't an episode about self-discovery or self-examination or faith or destiny or education or, even, revelation, despite the title. It was an episode about fallout. It was an episode about disappointment.
Sure there were actual revelations. The Four. Earth. But that's not what it was about. It was about reaching the end of your journey and discovering it's worse than where you were before. The crushing sense of betrayal that you went through so much crap: the things and people you sent to their deaths, the things and people you left behind, the things and people you loved who turned out dead or destroyed or cylons, the things and people you betrayed and the terrible gambles you took with their fates. You bet everything to get to Earth because it was a divine fucking mandate and there is no surer bet than that, and you didn't roll the hard six, you rolled snake eyes.
The end of the episode: that's where the story is. The rest is just getting there.
I was surprised and oddly touched by Baltar's gratitude to Laura and her reluctance and shyness and inability to say either 'you're welcome,' or 'never speak to me again.'
I feel bad for Tory. I believe that 1) she genuinely wanted to make sure the President got her medicine, and also it genuinely was safer for the fleet than continuing to piss off D'anna, and 2) in her situation you ride the cylon train or you face a lifetime of self-denial and to be honest, you make that sort of jump, and you have to really commit to it. To quote Athena, you pick your side and you stick, otherwise you end up with nothing, no home, no family, no life to call your own. Tory picked, and she chose not to be the cylon among humans spending a lifetime in apology, or the cylon among cylon spending a lifetime in ambivalent guilt. I think her brutality is borne of desperation. I think her denial of Roslin is borne of a need to cast off something, to make some sort of grand gesture, to reassure herself that this is her home. To embrace the one group of people who will validate her existence as a blessing. HOWEVER, 3) I think she may be losing the plot. Rather, I think she lost it a while ago, and that makes me sad.
OH SAUL TIGH.
I started loving you during New Caprica, and somehow you have become one of my absolute favourites. You're like my anti-Oldama. I remember way back in season one when I liked you in that, "oh, interesting issues, interesting plot potential, but you'll never be a favourite," way. When he was a drunk ass and I had that revelation after half a dozen episodes that it takes acting talent to pull off that sort of character but that it's probably a rather thankless job since the role (at the time) didn't really include display-piece material. And...I tried to pay a bit more attention to him, but even during his tenure during that whole martial law incident at the start of season two it was - how can I say it? - he was interesting to watch because of the chaos he was creating, not because he, himself, was interesting. He was still an alcoholic who made dumb mistakes and who usually made you want to bang your head against the wall rather than try to understand on a complex level. Because at the time, he was probably the most static of all the characters. There was little suggestion that he would change or ever have a storyline more interesting than Saul Tigh gets drunk and is manipulated by his wife. Again.
OH BUT SEASON THREE.
And now. Yeah. Nothing will eclipse Laura Roslin as my absolute favourite. But damn if Tigh isn't climbing the ranks quickly and no one is more surprised than my season-one-and-two-era-self.
But yeah, Tigh in this episode. SO NOBLE. SO AWESOME. SO HILARIOUS WHEN BILL REFUSED TO BELIEVE HIM. Because honestly, I wouldn't have either. I would have been like, "Yeah, this is another of those 'music in the walls of the ship' and 'confessing to murder on the witness stand,' and 'knocking up the prisoner' moments, isn't it?"
But for real, Saul Tigh's crazy, bug-eyed messiah impression when he throws his arms wide and declares himself to be one of the final five and how Adama has to threaten to "throw MEEEEEEEE out an airlock!" was just so much better/more hilarious/more moving than any messiah impression Baltar has ever given us.
Standing straight-backed in the airlock. Amazing. Finally, for the first time, Saul Tigh has discovered the man he wants to be, and is being that man, absolutely, unequivocally, with such integrity. It's effortless. It's beautiful.
It gets taken away from him.
What do you do when you miss the moment you discover you existed for? It's the question of every single person in the Colonial Fleet. Of Romo Lampkin: he didn't die with his wife and daughters. Of Lee Adama: he didn't die floating in space. Of Kara Thrace: what do you do after your destiny? After you've died and come back and convinced everyone to follow you on some madcap chase for Earth, and you come back with cylon allies - what do you do then? Go back to being CAG? It's the question of Laura Roslin. What happens after you stop being the dying leader? The Fleet abandons the search for Earth and lands itself on a snake pit called New Caprica. What happens if you're not the dying leader at all, and you do set foot on Earth, and it's covered in ashes?
Saul Tigh had the perfect, redemptive moment to die. But he didn't. And he's still him: the alcoholic spouse-murdering one-eyed robot XO. He doesn't get to die saving the Fleet, proving his loyalty and worth, to himself as much as to anyone else. He survives. And he's the drunk man, alone, the drunk who has to deal with his screwed-up robot girlfriend and the loss of the only place he's known in his life.
Instead of proving his worth by dying for the Fleet, he's saved because his worth was actually tied to finding Earth. His worth was tied to the most crushing disappointment of all. It's two weeks too late to be talking about sine qua non, but really, Earth is the Fleet's. And if the episode Sine Qua Non was about finding yours and holding onto it (and The Hub dealt with that question for Laura), then this is the episode about losing it.
What the hell am I supposed to do now? It's Saul's question. Now they're at Earth, it's everyone's question. It's always the question, once immediate survival has been dealt with.
Though you know whose question it isn't? Bill Adama's. Maybe that's why I feel like he's trapped in a world where everyone he loves is transforming in strange ways he can't understand, and can't stop by demanding it.
Bill's never lost his sine qua non and been forced to turn into something new to deal with it. Every time it's been threatened, something - usually his own blind obstinacy and (apparently correct) belief that if he refuses enough times, the universe will capitulate - saves him from having to confront it.
Until now. Or at least, for a span of a few hours he thinks that's the case (though really, it still isn't, maybe, if he can get over Tigh being a cylon). Honestly, what's his sine qua non really? He has to consider nuking his son, and he's stoic. He deals with Kara's death and he cries and breaks his ship then gets back to work. He has to deal with nuking Laura on the baseship and again, stoic. But when Tigh is "lost" to him?
AHAHAAHAAHAHAAHAAHAA!
OH BILL ADAMA NEVER CHANGE.
I love his old man love for Tigh. Because - the best thing about this entire damn episode - without question - is that drunken crazy drooling state he gets himself into?
TAKES HIM FIFTEEN MINUTES.
It happens in the time it takes to escort Tigh from Adama's quarters to the airlock. And I don't think that they finally sent Lee to check on Adama after hours of waiting for instructions since D'anna was airlocking hostages every fifteen minuts. So either Adama got himself into a state where his son had to drag him across the floor in fifteen minutes, or he got himself into a state like that while people were being executed instead of doing something about it.
OH ADAMA NEVER CHANGE!
I've discovered my zen about you, and now I love you, Bill. Never, ever change.
Though I have to say, much as I found it hilarious, I turned on a dime when Bill started gasping, inconsolable about all those people. Sure, Tigh's revelation may have been the catalyst, but EJO was spot on with that delivery and it suddenly spun the entire scene out into perhaps the first time we've seen Adama shaken to his core. It's all going to hell, and it's not just about losing his friend, there are all those people he sent to die. He didn't know that was what he was doing at the time, but it was and damn it, Adama preached, from day ONE, in both the mini series in response to the First Cylon War and in response to the Olympic Carrier incident, that you make your choices and you live with them either way. But this is the first damn time I've ever seen him really feel the weight of that, rather than dealing with the weight of it by ignoring it, suppressing his emotions.
And seeing Lee step up, take care of his dad, tell him he was going to fix it and kissing him on the head was...quite beautiful. Though Adama will never mention this again. But it was a great moment for Lee's character.
So yeah, I find the reasons and ways Adama got into that state hucking filarious, but the end of it was...powerful, actually. All those people. What has he done? It's all right, it's all right: Lee will take care of it. Because he makes those choices now, and he doesn't flinch, or there'll be more kids in body bags going out that airlock.
SPEAKING OF: LEE AND LAURA MADE UP! OH HOW HAPPY WAS I THAT LAURA REMEMBERED HER LESSON FROM LAST EPISODE OUGHT TO APPLY TO MORE THAN JUST BILL ADAMA! I loved how proud she was of him. And how grateful and relieved he seemed to have her approval. Because she's right, he did a really good job.
Re: the metaphysical cycle of time. I have no problem with this being a repeating cycle, or with something orchestrating it, but I found the whole viper thing a bit weird. Mainly because the idea that it magically changed and suddenly started picking up this message seemed like a bit of a...massively weird deus ex machina. Worse than Starbuck appearing in a new viper, I hear you ask? Yes, actually, because that was so huge it tied into mythic archetypes. A magically changing piece of machinery is a bit weirder. Because it stops being a never ending series of coincidences and subtly manipulated causes and effects and starts being RANDOM MAGIC EVENTS! So I prefer the idea that the beacon was only just activated by someone/thing, or that the viper previously wasn't in range to pick up the signal, or that the signal had been travelling through space for years and years and only just got this far. Basically anything that means that the signal would have been there regardless had anyone thought to look at it, it's just the Final Four were like...road signs, or alarm clocks.
Though again, do the Final Four come from Earth or not? Oy, I'm just going to wait for RDM's explanation for now. Though DAMN, 2009? WTF? It's just... I'm sort of ready to have my life back. Like, it'll fade into the background again in a few months, I know. And I'll wait and it'll all be fine. But I've made my peace with the fact this is the last season and...I want to be able to look at it all. I want to draw conclusions from the whole series. Dammit, I'm ready and I have to wait another six months at least.
Regarding the ending and the truce. Wow.
Well firstly, I loved that D'anna actually said, it doesn't matter: they'll never forgive us for the twelve colonies. Because it's true. I mean, I know that literally, you could forgive, but I don't believe it'll ever happen.
But that doesn't mean I don't believe this truce or that Lee would offer up the information or that human and cylon can wander around the surface of Earth oddly trusting, bound by the wounding revelation that it wasn't worth it.
Because when given that information, practically, it makes most sense for D'anna, for the time being, to co-operate. She has what she wants. She still has a final card up her sleeve (the Fifth). She knows that three of the Four won't willingly come with her and hurting the hostages would make them even less willing. Killing the hostages would provoke an all out combat that would probably obliterate both parties. There's nothing to piss over anymore and D'anna has a slight advantage (the Fifth).
Because it comes down to this: the Rebel Basestar is the Cylon equivalent of the rag-tag Fleet. A single warship, wounded, on the run from an impossible number of enemies, reduced to a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of their former strength, with no home to return to. Because the ones, fours and fives may not be able to resurrect, but they still have basestars and basestars and basestars and twelve colonies full of models (perhaps even versions of the twos, sixes and eights. While the rebels spoke for all of their model number it seems unlikely EVERY baseship became segregated and was destroyed. After that one ship went rogue, I could either imagine all the other versions of that model being boxed, or I could imagine them deciding that the actions of their siblings were regrettable and beginning to tow the party line again because they'd rather live).
But I'm digressing. The point is: the rebel basestar has taken up the fight on, sort of, the side of the Colonials. At least in that they are actively opposing the impossible Cylon war machine. They wounded themselves horribly, in front of, in conjunction with the Colonials. It's not forgiveness. But on this tiny scale it is, perhaps, a truce. A tiny measure of shared experience that means they can wander the scarred face of Earth and realise that every one of them is experiencing the same horrifically bitter disappointment.
I don't know what to make of the ending itself. It was mildly surprising but not utterly shocking, though perhaps I should have been shocked. A civilised Earth of either ancient past or far-flung future would have been...too easy. They would have stayed, and it's only half way through the season. I mean, I believe this is Earth. But it had to be "not right" somehow. And this makes sense, story-wise.
Though I have no idea why it's like this.
I also don't know what's going on with Roslin standing on it. The dying leader isn't supposed to set foot in the promised land, I thought. Perhaps Earth is not the promised land. But then again, introducing the secret "other" promised land at this point would be lame. So it's a tricky balancing act. They can't go back to the twelve colonies because the other cylon are still there. And even though they're mortal now, they're horribly outnumbered and I refuse to believe that one damaged basestar and one damaged battlestar have a hope in hell of reclaiming twelve occupied worlds.
The best thing Farscape ever did was find John Crichton a way home to Earth in (oh snap!) the middle of the final, fourth season, and then have him carry on after that. So carrying on after Earth has the potential to be incredible. But then again...that same question: What the hell am I supposed to do now? John Crichton already knew the answer. Knew it so well he never, ever intended to stay. The Fleet doesn't. So I'm...intrigued to find out.
I wouldn't have liked it to end right here, because there are too many unanswered questions: why is Earth like this? Who is the Fifth? What's up with the Final Five? But at the same time - like the end of season three - I could have lived with it.
The last montage is...beautiful. I find myself fascinated by the shot choices. Tory reaching out to Sam is an interesting choice. Kara is shot closer to Leoben than either Lee or Sam. I loved Laura's delivery of the scene's only word. Caprica walking to Tigh in a shot that shows her not walking towards Baltar is clearly deliberate. And I was grateful to see her if only briefly because I'm a little miffed we didn't get a scene with her and Tigh cus...boy that's a conversation I'm a little pissed I missed out on. Also yay! She has a jacket and has been let out of jail! I really wish that I weren't vaguely invested in this Frankenstein's Monster of a relationship because it cannot possibly end well, and yet, I find myself oddly touched by it. I want to believe she's not just jumping on the next desperate chance to get someone to love her; I want to believe that Tigh could ever love her for who she is, not who he wishes she'd be. The cold, hard facts are that it's a horrifically dysfunctional relationship full of secrets and violence, and I'm not sure it can be fixed in a way that won't be horribly unbelievable or horribly sexist, even though I want it to be fixed desperately. I AM DOOMED.
Also: 2009?! I AM DOOMED.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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Date: 2008-06-15 09:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-06-16 10:23 am (UTC)Though I think I'd be a bit pissed of that was the serious reveal. I mean I know that we have sentient machines like the raiders, but I can't help but feel that it would be a narrative let down if Kara's viper or the Galactica turned out to be the final cylon...
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Date: 2008-06-15 10:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-06-16 10:24 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2008-06-15 10:48 pm (UTC)It's not just you. I'm fascinated by them as a pair, and exhilarated/horrified by the future baby.
Oh, and you said lots of other really smart things, but I'm still digesting what happened, so I'll just stop my comment here. *g*
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Date: 2008-06-15 11:29 pm (UTC)I'll throw my hat into the Caprica/Tigh ring, as well. When they first introduced them as a pair in "Escape Velocity" I was very "WTF?!?!?" But in a startlingly brief period of time I've become completely intrigued, and I may need to write fic soon. Yikes! :)
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Date: 2008-06-16 10:27 am (UTC)Also you flatter me, sir! :p But really, I talk...a lot: there's no need to reply to everything. All comments are welcome and such. ;)
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Date: 2008-06-15 11:49 pm (UTC)Ah, this is wonderful! Tigh as microcosm of this episode, which is itself a microcosm of the whole show: what happens after? What happens when the climax comes, and you don't die? When the whole world dies, except for this handful of people? When you bet everything on Earth and come up empty? When you find the man you want to be but still have to live with the man you've always been?
And I agree completely with your assessment of Tigh's development as a character and of my relationship with him. Because he was always fine, interesting as far as he went, etc., and then suddenly there's New Caprica, and in the space of four episodes he became my second-favorite character on the show.
A magically changing piece of machinery is a bit weirder. Because it stops being a never ending series of coincidences and subtly manipulated causes and effects and starts being RANDOM MAGIC EVENTS!
Yeah, this bothered me a bit, as well. Or perhaps not the viper in so many words, but the coexistence of Clearly Supernatural Events on one hand and of Lee's declaration that they can change the cycle on the other. And I so much want it to be Lee's way!
The dying leader isn't supposed to set foot in the promised land, I thought. Perhaps Earth is not the promised land. But then again, introducing the secret "other" promised land at this point would be lame.
I went back to Battlestar Wiki to confirm this, and the promised land is never named as Earth in any of the scriptures we see directly quoted. But again I'll reference the shiny brain of
There are at least three of us who have independently referenced Farscape in relation to this episode. :)
The cold, hard facts are that it's a horrifically dysfunctional relationship full of secrets and violence, and I'm not sure it can be fixed in a way that won't be horribly unbelievable or horribly sexist, even though I want it to be fixed desperately. I AM DOOMED.
I KNOW!!!!!!!!
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Date: 2008-06-16 10:48 am (UTC)That whole paragraph is wonderful, but especially this. Because he really is the microcosm of the entire show and holy hell that's...a bizarre thing to realise.
Moving on from that, the comparisons to Farscape have me thinking. I never thought the two shows were that thematically similar, but both are about learning what you do when you find out you can't even go home again. Though the difference is that for John it was a choice, something he'd grown beyond, something we knew he had to grow beyond since late in the first season - since A Human Reaction. He grew up. For BSG, for the Fleet, it was never something we expected. We thought we knew where we were headed: towards a home. We thought we were already grown up. We thought we were living after the "climax" the, after the end of the story, already. Apparently we weren't. It's...gut-wrenching. Even though I'm not sure how the story can continue after this. I'm also not sure what, if anything, that Farscape reference means, but like you say, it seems to be something that comes up in relation to this episode and I'm currently thinking about it! Hooray for the stream-of-consciousness technique of comment replying!
Thanks for the confirmation on the "promised land" versus "earth" issue. I guess like you, I'm curious, though, where they can go from here. Even if it's purely for metatextual reasons, from a story perspective, they've come too far to go back. They have to keep going forward, it's the only narratively satisfying option, I think. And I confess that I fear a "reveal" like, "Oh, the 'promised land' is actually this other place," or "Oh, it's metaphorical, duh!" will ring hollow. A twist for the sake of it, rather than for the story?
Though I would be kind of okay if Earth was simply the home of the Final Five and formed yet another signpost on the way to this "promised land." Sort of. I say sort of because I do still have the worries expressed in the above paragraph and also because, to reference Farscape again, brief as it was, the last scenes of the episode gave me....Terra Firma vibes. I'm not sure I could be happy with them discovering a 'promised land'. I'm not sure, after everything, if I'd even believe it would last. I don't know that a happy ending would be in keeping with the tone of the show. But...but how else can it end unless they're doomed to keep jumping forever, like Sam Beckett? Would I like that any more? Argh. This is why I wish the whole show would just finish up its run now, dammit!
I KNOW!!!!!!!!
I HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO SAY THAT I HAVE NOT ALREADY SAID TO YOU IN CAPSLOCK BUT I FEEL THE NEED TO SAY SOMETHING OR YOU MAY STOP KEEPING ME SANE BY REASSURING ME I AM NOT ALONE IN THIS! *WEEPS*
...I need a Tigh icon. I need a Tighcon!
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Date: 2008-06-16 06:50 pm (UTC)For the colonials, Earth itself was the dream and obviously, the reality proved to be not what they expected.
Furthermore, considering the eagerness to land and colonize (as in: stop wandering the galaxy) New Caprica, I'm not going to offer the colonials too much pity. Ultimately, they have to analyze what it was they wanted to find: earth (or rather, their kindred), or a terra firma.
While I don't want to see it end like this, I am all for the inconclusive endings and could appreciate this one. Well, I have to. Frakking 2009.
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Date: 2008-06-16 12:02 am (UTC)Saul Tigh's crazy, bug-eyed messiah impression when he throws his arms wide and declares himself to be one of the final five and how Adama has to threaten to "throw MEEEEEEEE out an airlock!" was just so much better/more hilarious/more moving than any messiah impression Baltar has ever given us.
YES. Oh my god, I've liked Tigh since season two-ish (Ellen helped. I liked Ellen.), but he's become a total force of nature on this show now. After all the secret Cylons' understandable waffling and denial and shifty-eyes this season, it was so awesome to see him finally step up and put his life, his friendship with Bill, everything on the line.
the Rebel Basestar is the Cylon equivalent of the rag-tag Fleet. A single warship, wounded, on the run from an impossible number of enemies, reduced to a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of their former strength, with no home to return to.
ILU. Okay, but I could not stand that D'Anna's reasoning was like "they'll never forgive us, so LET'S NOT EVEN BOTHER." Yes, there's truth in that somewhere, but ew. I wish Natalie wasn't dead. It was kind of amazing and necessary that Lee was the one who reached out first -- for once the ball ended up in the humans' court to show they are sincere about being allies.
And word on Caprica-Six/Tigh. Damn crack ship. They couldn't have come together just to break them both even *more*, right?
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Date: 2008-06-16 10:57 am (UTC)I KNOW! ISN'T IT AWESOME?! XD
YES. Oh my god, I've liked Tigh since season two-ish (Ellen helped. I liked Ellen.), but he's become a total force of nature on this show now.
Well, your love predates mine. I liked Ellen for entertainment, but again, until season three, I didn't so much see her as two-dimensional but as a three-dimensional character we were probably never going to spend enough time with for me to care about understanding on a level beyond, "I'm drunk and flirting inappropriately again!" Which, yeah, FUN because BSG is so bleak, but not ZOMG I HEART YOU material.
But Tigh as a force of nature - what a fabulous description. I just...am continually awed by the way they - during the third season of a show - decided to give so much attention and display piece material to a character who was neither one of their main seven credited cast members nor famous nor young nor hot. Kudos to them, really.
I wish Natalie wasn't dead.
I think we all wish that! *cries*
Re: D'anna, I think that she's just...she's not human and she doesn't understand the ways in which she is sort of human. And I didn't get the impression it was so much motivated by a desire to continue the war so much as exhaustion, an end-of-the-line brutal practicality that no matter how much they might want to just find Earth there are deep, deep wounds that can't be easily healed. I was actually pleased to see it not because I thought they shouldn't try, but because I also don't think they should pretend they even know how to start trying. They should try, but it's also so huge, so nebulous, so impossible that it engenders massive despair, anger and grief? I don't know. I liked it anyway! ;)
They couldn't have come together just to break them both even *more*, right?
I don't know! But...I think what worries me, like I said above, is that I'm falling hard for the pairing because they're both so fascinating and they make each other more fascinating, but despite that I don't want a departure from characterisation or fallout or realism. And that relationship is so frakked it's going to be very hard not to simply have them break each other more. *wibble*
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Date: 2008-06-16 03:20 am (UTC)It was an episode about fallout.
The end of the episode: that's where the story is. The rest is just getting there.
Yes. Exactly. I almost don't care about this half of the season, because now we get to delve into the character fallout. "Now what?" What if wandering indefinitely is all there is? What if Adama doesn't get to rest, having led his people to the promised land, but instead has to grow old harrying the heels of an ever less motivated Fleet? What does Saul do after he outs himself as one of humanity's worst enemies? (And actually I think Lee might be best-placed to deal with the disappointment of Earth, because he's already decided he was going to stand for hope despite all evidence to the contrary.)
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Date: 2008-06-16 11:00 am (UTC)Actually, I really love this half of the season, though I'm aware it wasn't without its problems, I guess it hit all the kinks to make me not care? But I totally agree with you about way that this ending clarifies and justifies the whole season in a new light. Like, suddenly...all we want is to go forward. All that crazy, awful stuff that happened between Kara's return and setting foot on Earth. It all led to this, and, considering what they did to get here, is it any wonder Earth was frakked? Metatextually at least?
You make an interesting point about Lee though. I'm inclined to agree. He'll feel least betrayed by all of them that the scriptures turned out to be false because he's the least religious (along with Adama, but Adama will be betrayed for different reasons) and like you say, he's already decided to try to make a positive difference in impossible circumstances. *must think about this more*
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Date: 2008-06-16 01:20 pm (UTC)But two important things:
1. I knew earth wouldn't be the fancy thing they expected. That's too easy. Clearly the place has sufered greatly after the Daggit War. >.>
2. The Fifth Cylon is here on Earth and is the one that's brought them there, together. I'm so glad they finally silenced the concept of the Fifth being in the fleet so that speculation can end. Unfortunately, can't agree with madenglishbloke's thought that it's a ship because D'Anna saw and is looking for a human(oid).
3. I'd like to say I was wrong about Lee not being able to make The Big Bad Decisions as president, but unfortunately, while he did even have his finger on the trigger himself, I just couldn't buy it. Things went too quckly and I just don't buy that Lee's made that jump from saving Baltar to risking sacrificing so many people by confronting D;Anna like that. Needed to see him come to that decision properly rather than just make it. Laura would have just made that decision and I get that Laura's words have influenced him, but this is still Lee who has mega-guilt over shooting down that ship long ago. Now he's all "I push da button!"
More later on why I'm disappointed.
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Date: 2008-06-17 12:22 am (UTC)1) Daggits? *runs screaming into the night*
2) Excellent point about the humanoid. But the next question is, how did D'anna recognise the Fifth if s/he wasn't on New Caprica? So either someone famous, or you can magically tell who the Final Five are when you look at them, or someone who was on New Caprica but is now dead, or who was on the Baseship at the time. Oy. Personally I hope it's Kara's dad (or, preferably, her Mom since we need another girl!cylon, but her mom was also icky and mean so maybe not). You know, for the crack! I have just...no idea who it really is though...
3) You know, it's weird, I totally didn't get that feeling about Lee. I really bought that he was doing that stuff. I mean, he had guilt about it, but he did actually fire on the Olympic Carrier. He angsts like crazy, but from day one he's been willing to make these decisions. I must think more on this!
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Date: 2008-06-16 03:19 pm (UTC)TAKES HIM FIFTEEN MINUTES.
HAHAHAHAHAHA. Why didn’t I think of that??? I have begun to like Bill for some reason (it was completely by proxy before, because the other characters like him for some reason), but only in the last 3 episodes when he’s totally selfish and batshit crazy! And I do not understand it! My selfish old man love is getting OUT OF HAND and it leads to nothing but tears. Oh thank you for making me laugh about it.
And if the episode Sine Qua Non was about finding yours and holding onto it (and The Hub dealt with that question for Laura), then this is the episode about losing it.
I love that (even though it's bleak). Yay articulation! Given Laura’s epiphany in The Hub, I have a small hope that it will be about stripping everything else away to get to the real sine qua non. But I am reaching because it's all about disappointment. Especially, like you say, if we take Bill as a microcosm (WHY Bill is my point of reference now, I cannot say, I think I might need therapy for it actually), okay fine, Tigh’s a Cylon, but by the end, everybody he loves is still standing with him. Yet I somehow don't think they'll see it that way. Because you’re right, for the rest of the fleet, Earth was IT. And it was Bill who gave them the hope in the first place, Bill who made up a lie to give them all something to live for. And Laura made it a divine fucking mandate. And Kara led them there. But that illusion that they all created to give them something to believe in turned out to be nothing more than Bill's lie anyway. The hope was so fucking not worth it. Now I’m back to the tears. But your posts are still awesome.
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Date: 2008-06-17 12:40 am (UTC)Not pointless at all! I was AT that concert! I didn't know that it got reported in the news over there. I have to be honest, living in the UK, Tim Russert isn't a well-known figure, though I know him because my mom's American and I've spent a fair amount of time there over the years, so it didn't gut-punch me like it has some. But I did think it was really classy of Bruce. He mentioned that Tim Russert had been a long-time friend of the E Street Band, but didn't go into details so thanks for sharing the story.
My selfish old man love is getting OUT OF HAND and it leads to nothing but tears.
IT DOES! And yet. They're so...star-crossed. o.O
I used to like Adama quite a lot. Then throughout season three I grew to loathe him. I mean he was still an interesting character, but I grew to dislike him quite intensely as a person. Now, however, I have found my zen centre point and had a wonderful moment of epiphany sometime around Sine Qua Non where I realised: Oh, this is actually hilarious.
Anyway, glad I made you laugh. ;)
I have a small hope that it will be about stripping everything else away to get to the real sine qua non.
I think that's a very valid point. I mean, unless they're going to spend an utterly nihilistic final ten episodes, they're going to have to find something to live for. Whether that's a real sine qua non or a new one, the point is the same. They'll have to find one, perhaps based on reality this time, instead of a myth? Although that said, I do think that the scrolls and prophecies in this universe are real, so I'm reluctant to call Earth a total pipedream.
But your posts are still awesome.
Um, thanks! *blushes* Honestly the best bit is when new people start talking to me. So welcome!
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From:Part the First
Date: 2008-06-16 04:58 pm (UTC)I know some people probably think I’m crazy for not being absolutely convinced that earth is earth. And I know people would be disappointed if it wasn’t, if it was another fake out, but I don’t think it matters what that planet is, it’s what it symbolized. The idea of earth was the one thing giving the people hope and the one thing holding them together and now they arrive at the promised land and it’s a wasteland. And what the hell do they do now? And will the fleet tear itself apart after being lead down a path that seemingly dead ends? I really did appreciate that the show just allowed us to watch these people and their various reactions to what was to be their new home and promised future. Their faces spoke volumes (good thing they have such a damn fine cast). As Lee asked, "Where do we go from here?"
I think her denial of Roslin is borne of a need to cast of something, to make some sort of grand gesture, to reassure herself that this is her home. To embrace the one group of people who will validate her existence as a blessing.
I’m really curious as to where Tory goes from here or, more precisely, where she can go. I don’t believe that Tigh, Sam, and Tyrol are going to be treated as if nothing has changed, however they made a choice to stay with the fleet and Tigh was willing to sacrifice himself to save them all. Some, if not all, will take that into consideration. Tory’s ‘To hell with you all’ is not going to sit well. I’m hoping Laura doesn’t take her back, but I can also see her doing it just to make her suffer. ;)
he was interesting to watch because of the chaos he was creating, not because he, himself, was interesting.
Interesting differentiation. I hated Tigh for the chaos he created, by I have a great deal of sympathy for the man and his internal struggles. I know Michael Hogan was pissed when he found out Tigh was a Cylon, but it was the best thing they could have done for him and the character. He went from a character to, at best, be pitied, to a man to be admired.
Nothing will eclipse Laura Roslin as my absolute favourite. But damn if Tigh isn't climbing the ranks quickly and no one is more surprised than my season-one-and-two-era-self.
Tigh has definitely moved up my list as well. I might rank him behind Lee, Laura, and the various versions of Six.
What happens after you stop being the dying leader? The Fleet abandons the search for Earth and lands itself on a snake pit called New Caprica. What happens if you're not the dying leader at all, and you do set foot on Earth, and it's covered in ashes.
See, this is why I question that earth is earth. Laura shouldn’t be there. And I can’t believe Kara’s special destiny has come to an end.
And Mary and others have referred to ‘Revelations’ as being the beginning of the end. What does that mean exactly? Maybe that earth was our home millennia ago, but humanity, as they are prone to do, screwed up and found themselves wandering through space until we arrived here.
Instead of proving his worth by dying for the Fleet, he's saved because his worth was actually tied to finding Earth. His worth was tied to the most crushing disappointment of all.
If Tigh wasn’t drinking heavily before.....
Re: Part the First
Date: 2008-06-17 12:56 am (UTC)Yeah, I still think it's Earth, but I do agree with you that if it isn't, while I'll be annoyed from a viewer-perspective, it doesn't make this moment a single bit less awful.
I’m really curious as to where Tory goes from here or, more precisely, where she can go. I don’t believe that Tigh, Sam, and Tyrol are going to be treated as if nothing has changed, however they made a choice to stay with the fleet and Tigh was willing to sacrifice himself to save them all.
Well, no one actually knows why Tory left. Roslin has the best idea, but I think that Tory was half getting back at her for cutting her out when she found out she was sleeping with Baltar - like I said above, she's lashing out because she's hurt and wants a new family. But I'm digressing. My point was, she can easily spin it that she left because she felt that staying in the Fleet would endanger the hostages (and she was right, and I also think that might have factored into her calculations somewhere along the line). She could even claim she had thought she had to act like she didn't want anything to do with the humans so as to keep her "cover" though I doubt Laura would believe that for a minute. Basically her dodgiest behaviour was the in the Basestar Command Centre with no other humans there, I don't think?
I know Michael Hogan was pissed when he found out Tigh was a Cylon,
Really? He was? Well I guess I understand why if he didn't know anything beyond the finale reveal, but I hope RDM managed to reassure him because like you say, it's by far the best thing that has happened to the character...
Tigh has definitely moved up my list as well. I might rank him behind Lee, Laura, and the various versions of Six.
Yeah, for me too. Except - and you'll hate me for this! - I think I might rank him above Lee. But that's because, while I like Lee a lot, I like half of Lee. I like Political PresidentsShipping Lee. But still, I never thought I'd see the day you agreed with me about Tigh's awesomeness! :p
See, this is why I question that earth is earth. Laura shouldn’t be there. And I can’t believe Kara’s special destiny has come to an end.
See I don't think the journey is at an end. But I do also think this is Earth, if that makes sense? Like this is just another part of the cycle they're being lead through and they're the ones misreading the holy texts and thinking that the exodus is over once they get here? It's worth noting that in the text of the show, the scrolls refer to the "promised land," but they never name is as "Earth." That said, I find that to be a "clever" twist rather than actually clever twist. So again, I'm hoping for something that manages to say, yes, this is Earth, this is the promised land, it's just not the end of your journey.
Of course that doesn't explain Laura setting foot on it. But I kind of like the doubt that casts on her status... Maybe. Possibly. Eh...dammit. 2009!
Part the Second
Date: 2008-06-16 05:00 pm (UTC)Yeah, I noticed the timing was very wonky. I don’t believe they executed more than one hostage – partly because I just don’t think the show wanted to go there and partly because we can never show Adama being a bad commander. But we’re to believe that in the space of fifteen minutes Adama had a drunken, violent, nervous breakdown AND Lee dealt with Tigh, D’Anna, and his father. Snerk.
SPEAKING OF: LEE AND LAURA MADE UP! OH HOW HAPPY WAS I THAT LAURA REMEMBERED HER LESSON FROM LAST EPISODE OUGHT TO APPLY TO MORE THAN JUST BILL ADAMA!
OMG WHAT AN AWSOME SCENE! As I’ve stated, short of them going at it on the table, it was perfect! ;-)
Mainly because the idea that it magically changed and suddenly started picking up this message seemed like a bit of a...massively weird deus ex machina…..So I prefer the idea that the beacon was only just activated by someone/thing, or that the viper previously wasn't in range to pick up the signal, or that the signal had been traveling through space for years and years and only just got this far.
OK, before I started avoiding spoilers, I got spoiled for the answer to your problem here. Actually, the scene that helps clear some stuff up was supposed to be in ‘Revelations’ and was moved to whatever the next episode is. I don’t wish to spoil anyone so I shall say no more, but if you want to know, let me know, and I’ll email the information to you.
I want to believe she's not just jumping on the next desperate chance to get someone to love her; I want to believe that Tigh could ever love her for who she is, not who he wishes she'd be. The cold, hard facts are that it's a horrifically dysfunctional relationship full of secrets and violence, and I'm not sure it can be fixed in a way that won't be horribly unbelievable or horribly sexist, even though I want it to be fixed desperately.
I don’t think for a second with the way things are now that Caprica and Tigh could have a healthy relationship. However, I did feel it was a positive move that she walked to Tigh (who didn’t flinch away) and didn’t even glance at Baltar. To me, Baltar is the more toxic relationship for Caprica and if she’s over him, I’ll be thrilled.
I also think that if after all the sex with Baltar if she didn’t get pregnant, but got pregnant by Tigh then, to her mind, there must be a reason for that. Either there is love there or the potential for it or it’s part of god’s plan.
Re: Part the Second
Date: 2008-06-17 01:10 am (UTC)No, no, the proper response is not snerk. It is: AHAHAHAAAHAHAHAAAHAHAA!
:p
OMG WHAT AN AWSOME SCENE! As I’ve stated, short of them going at it on the table, it was perfect! ;-)
[stubborn]They would have too if it they hadn't been stuck taking care of that cranky old drooling man![/stubborn]
don’t wish to spoil anyone so I shall say no more, but if you want to know, let me know, and I’ll email the information to you.
Email has been sent!
To me, Baltar is the more toxic relationship for Caprica and if she’s over him, I’ll be thrilled.
I totally agree with this. I remember during the very early days of season three, I kind of, vaguely (although not in anything like the absurd way I have taken to Caprica/Tigh o.O) wanted Gaius and Caprica to work things out and save each other. And during the New Caprica episodes, Baltar was so disconnected for understandable reasons I couldn't tell if he was being selfish or simply, finally, understanding the magnitude of what he'd done. But once he was on the Basestar it became painfully and repetitively obvious that Gaius doesn't love her, or if he does that it's an awfully self-centred love. Even when he knows that his life hangs in the balance he can't work out that maybe he ought to start with "I love you," rather than, "you can't kill me, you love MEEE!" So yeah. She really needs to get over him. And I'm bizarrely happy that she just walked straight past him, even if it was to another man who's utterly...broken.
I suppose, though, we at least know that Tigh can and has loved deeply. And I suppose that's the other half of why the pairing is so oddly compelling. Tigh's deepest wound is the loss of Ellen; is the death of love, the death of his heart, the death of the only person who could ever love him. And Caprica Six has a huge capacity to love (and beat the crap out of people!) But then again, that love comes from such a vulnerable, exploitable place that we're back to how screwed up this whole thing is.
But to get back to the original point, I do wonder if I'm not just desperate for her to fall for someone, anyone other than Baltar!
I also think that if after all the sex with Baltar if she didn’t get pregnant, but got pregnant by Tigh then, to her mind, there must be a reason for that. Either there is love there or the potential for it or it’s part of god’s plan.
Yeah, I'm wondering what her reaction to all this will be. I mean, whatever the truth is, she's going to see this as some sort of miracle or sign, and hell, if it gets her away from Baltar, I'll take it.
Re: Part the Second
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From:no subject
Date: 2008-06-16 06:33 pm (UTC)As I said, I'm disappointed. Not because I don't like what happened, but because I don't like how fast it happened. That episode felt like it should have been at least two. There were too many things happening and all of them were too important to be sidelined in the rush, literally, to get to earth. What I really needed to see was the character development there. I needed to see the whys and the reactions for a lot of the characters - especially Lee (and also Kara, but less so).
1. D'Anna. Not surprising that she took over. Not surprising that she was ruthless about it. But she really didn't need to be. The episode started to fail for me as soon as she airlocked a prisoner because it was such an unnecessary.
2. Blow the basestar: Again, just couldn't feel it. No we don't want the Cylons getting to earth before us, but blow the basestar if they get the Four? What kind of logic is that? Then we are down a huge chunk of pilots, a president, a religious leader and the Four who could lead us home.
3. Tory: Her actions were the only unquestionable things in the episode. As you said, I think she genuinely wanted to give Laura her meds (though the fact that she was carrying them with her the whole time could simply have been part of her plan to get on the basestar and reveal herself anyway). I would have liked to see a bit more of her and their reactions to each other, but because of what she's been giving us up to this point, I can accept as is.
4. Roslin + Baltar: Not much else needed here, but I just wanted to point out the Baltary goodness of his choice of words. "Essentially for not murdering me." Not "letting me die." Ah Baltar. Your guilt is gone but you are the master of laying it on everyone else.
5. Roslin's hair: this is an aside really, but I have been wondering about her wig/hair in her visions. When she first had the opera house vision, we saw what later became her wig. (In subsequent visions, we see Gaius with his Jesus hair and no facial hair.) In the jump visions, she had her old hair. It was an interesting reflection of time.
no subject
Date: 2008-06-17 01:21 am (UTC)2. Roslin just likes threatening to nuke things! And she hasn't had a chance since the Algae planet. Give her a break! Though I suppose my response is, Roslin is terrified of D'anna and while she doesn't want this to happen, she'd rather sacrifice the airwing and herself and get rid of the enemies in their midst if they turn out to be enemies, than start a fight which will probably see all the hostages executed anyway. I think basically she was reminding him that "We don't negotiate when people take hostages"?
4. I noticed that too! I mean, I still stand by what I said above - I was oddly touched, even though I don't think it makes him a decent human being or decent messianic candidate, but I at least believed his gratitude was genuine. And genuine in a way that suggested he knew he didn't really deserve it. Still, as you note, the way he puts it is...amusing. But that's okay, cus our girl Laura isn't going to take any of Baltar's guilt-tripping!
5. You know, every time we get to see her real hair these days, I get terribly excited, and YET somehow it never even occured to me that her new Opera House haircut was her wig! I just figured she had a different haircut the same way she had new clothes. *headdesk* Thanks for pointing that out! Fascinating...
Part 3!
Date: 2008-06-16 06:34 pm (UTC)7. Earth: Everything the colonials have encountered to this point has always turned sour. With so many episodes to go, I was not at all shocked with what they found. Sure it means their hopes were dashed about finding a whole bunch of the THirteenth there waiting with open arms, but they are just going to have to get over that and work on colonizing the planet (once they defeat the daggits, of course).
8. Adama's 15 minute breakdown: Also ample time to grow a pornstache.
9. Kara: Swore she'd shoot Sam between the eyes if she found he was a Cylon. I would have liked to see greater reaction to him than that.
10. And finally, Lee: Am I supposed to accept that he's suddenly, when faced with the mega-situations his father and Laura have been all this time, he can so easily agree to blow the basestar/send people on a suicide run/airlock
Tighhis father's best friend. Just like that? It wasn't a bluff. Lee was going to do all that. And I don't buy it. It's not that I don't think he could in the end. But I needed to see him get there and see the remorse and pain we so know and love. Everything he did there I'd have expected from Cain. Not Lee. Particularly airlocking Tigh after seeing what the revelation did to his dad. He knows how much his dad loves TIgh. And he's just going to push the button even while the basestar's nukes are armed against the fleet? Hmm. And then top it off with "Okay we'll go on your hunch and now I'll give everyone amnesty."11. Oh and finally finally - L/L: If I accept what Lee was going to do and what he did, then it makes me appreciate Laura's reaction to him at the end. As we discussed last episode, he's gained that level of respect from her; he's proven himself. I think her feelings towards him actually have less to do with the vision than him actually proving himself. And now she gets to have her cake and eat it too because I see it as her being loved by someone who actually understands her, and being loved and loving someone who challenges her.
(Also, loved two things about the final scenes: Caprica moving to Tigh, and Tyrol sitting with Nicky and giving him a kiss. A bit up in the air about D'Anna's reaction, but found it interesting that her questioningness was directed at Adama and Roslin)
Re: Part 3!
Date: 2008-06-17 01:30 am (UTC)8. Also ample time to grow a pornstache.
*CLAWS OUT OWN EYES!*
9. Good point. To be honest, I think she was in shock. And also, it's an easy thing to say in an emotional moment, but the cold shock of it probably overwhelmed that. I mean, I would have liked more of a response too. But in some ways, the quietness was worse. Also, it's nice that she continued doing her job if only because I love the fact that no other character would become more functional after being told they were the harbinger of death...
10. I think I gave most of my thoughts on Lee above, but basically, I'm lucky and don't have the same issues you do. :(
11. I LOVED seeing Nicky and Tyrol. It was so...honestly I think it was the most relieving thing in the entire montage. Tyrol's been through so much and so has Nicky, and seeing him connecting with his son and loving him was...yeah. Relief. Also, Caprica and Tigh are...disturbing me by how interesting I find them. So yes, I liked that moment too. Though I'm still convinced that relationship is the worst idea since Adama left Tigh in charge of the Fleet to wait for his girlfriend in the car. :/