BSG InstaFreakout!

[beccatoria]

DANIEL?

Dude. It would be too creepy if Kara's father was number seven and named Daniel Thrace (not to mention, why didn't Kara have a stronger reaction to hearing the name) since I wrote that frakking story with no spoiler information.

But like...why else bring up the Sevens as artists? I'm worried it's just a retcon to explain why there are no sevens and that Daniel was a nonstarter. But it sort of sounded like maybe they never got beyond the prototype before John nuked the line, but the prototype was okay?

But then, it makes the Nicky retcon doubly pointless if Kara is also like Hera. Which makes me wary of declaring victory.

Man, I will be so impossibly disappointed if this isn't true now: curse you show!

Although (while I never considered the whole "travel at exactly lightspeed" slowing time thing nor a lot of the stuff about where the downloading came from) I do consider at least some amount of moral victory that I did speculate correctly that the Final Five made the other models in an attempt to stop history from repeating itself and frakking up supremely.

Now I just need confirmation that the hybrid is sekritly changing reality (no, not even I expect to get that one!) and I'll be satisfied. :p

Oh, and that Kara has never happened before, that would be cool too.

Final brief thought, I still hate John Cavil but I LOVED him here. He's fascinating and brilliant. Clearly he wiped all the other copies of their memories of the five.

NO RLY. If Daniel is Daniel Thrace I...will not have words for how awed/freaked out I will be.

REALLY. SHOW YOU SHOULD NOT TEASE ME LIKE THIS. IT IS CRUEL.

Comments

[nightxade.livejournal.com]

DUDE WaIT? You made up the name Daniel??? I was all "WAHA BECCA WAS RIIIIIGHT!" Also, I finally had an explanation for why the Cylons couldn't bloody well count. 1-6, 8 and the Final Five had no numbers? Hello! Was there no Sesame Street in the Colonies?

As for Kara, still going on the assumption that you were right, didn't she shut Sam up right after he spoke Daniel's name? And Sam said they were all glowing? I thought she was doing that to prevent her discovery. And so I was thinking that Leoben knew Kara was a hybrid? Or maybe she's not a hybrid (cuz the others would know too?) but Daniel was a part of her life and had a strong effect?

I was troubled by the fact that there was no human representative present as the Cylons learned their history and therefore the history of the war with the Humans.

I liked Cavel too as the angry child -- and loved what he did to the FF and how he was involved with them in some significant way as they made their way to Galactica and the fleet -- but I'm still a bit thrown that not only is Ellen one of the FInal Five, but she's the frakkin' Borg Queen.

Hurray for Boomer figuring it out. GO free will!

I'm a bit annoyed that there was no indication of the social aftermath of the mutiny other other than Adama's refusal to initially allow the use of Basestar tech to save Galactica, which I assumed was not merely out of a wish not to taint her since he had intended to taint all the ships with Basestar FTL upgrades. I know there is limited time to tell the final story, but we can't skip over important bits, people!

Gah. And no preview for next week this time! WTF!

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Well, that's why I'm freaking out. Cus I DID totally just pull that name out of thin air (or maybe I stole it from Daniel Graystone in Caprica or something, not that I want to tie those two shows together EVER), but it certainly was never a canon name that I was aware of.

I don't think Kara would have been trying to stop people from working out what was going on or she wouldn't have been tearfully confessing to Sam that she thought maybe she was number seven when he was out of surgery? That sounded like she still felt lost.

I LOVED Cavil here. But I'm going to try and go into why in more detail when I actually review this sucker properly.

I was also disappointed about the lack of aftermath though. :(

There was an American preview on youtube! Let me find the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyT1GqBhiMg

[daybreak777.livejournal.com]

I sure hope you can claim victory. I want someone victorious about this show. But it kinda kills the suspense for me. Kara's father? Okay. It was so much info given in such a short period of time.

Dean Stockwell was fascinating with Cavil, I do have to say. I was totally captivated by his rage. :-) This being is the reason 12 planets were nuked. (Other than a repeating destiny too.) I love that he is a totally irredeemable child. This may sound weird but he embodies what I like about Cylons. Their potential and desire to be more and to be not human. It was such a relief to hear someone express it. He was as frustrated as I was, 'Why did you make me this way?'

I always like responding to your reviews. Writing this made me find something I liked in this ep! And I hope victory is yours!

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I loved what they did with Cavil in this episode. Amazing. I'm going to go into more detail with it when I review properly.

I'm also glad I managed to let you find something you enjoyed in the episode. I have to be honest, I really enjoyed it. With a lot of nervousness because it was the kind of episode that had all these awesome FIRST HALVES of revelations. Now we need awesome OTHER HALVES of them to keep the level of cool going.

We don't actually have confirmation he's her father yet. Like...I think that would be the sensible way to go but...too much else doesn't quite add up for me to not be horribly nervous about the whole thing.

[frolicndetour.livejournal.com]

I thought exactly the same thing when they said that Daniel was an artist. Of course, I was pulling for Socrata Thrace to be the final Cylon because it hits my Kara-as-Achilles kink, (and she also would have been a female counterpart to Tigh), so I'm not really to be trusted here. ;)

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Honestly at this point I just want Kara to be a Cybrid somehow.

And I was willing to pull for ELLEN TIGH to be her mother if it got me there. o_O

But yeah. I'm just...desperate that I'm somehow right about this.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

As soon as they said "Daniel" I FREAKED THE FRAK OUT, and I was in COMPANY WHO DIDN'T UNDERSTAND and I was all "OMG, SHE'S GOING TO FLIP! I CAN'T WAIT!" It was AWESOME.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

I DID FLIP. I AM FLIPPING RIGHT NOW. FLIPPING I TELL YOU. THERE IS FLIPPING.

I DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO MAKE OF IT.

IF THEY THROW ME THIS BONE AND THEN STEAL IT AWAY FROM ME I WILL CRY. CRY I TELL YOU!

[pellucid.livejournal.com]

OMG!!! YOU MADE THAT UP????????? I figured it was somewhere in a backstory whatever thingie and was all freaking out that MAYBE YOU WERE RIGHT OMG!!!! But if it was really some weird brain-sharing thing where you right and you and the show BOTH HAD THE SAME NAME, I WILL FREAK THE FUCK OUT!!!!!

I was also having the thought that maybe Kara is the daughter of Daniel and Ellen--y/n? The whole thing where they were "very close" and all that.

I'm still processing actual episode thoughts, but DUDE!!!! I'm a happy girl-who-loves-meta right now!!!

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I did totally make it up. I was wondering if I didn't cus it's just so freaky but I remember just making it up (possibly influenced by Daniel Graystone cus I think I was reading Caprica spoilers at the time, though I don't want there to be a connection between the two) because it went well with Thrace.

I'm actually kind of worried that people will not realise I made it up and take this as another clue or something. Even though...I really hope this is what it is. Even though that would ALSO FREAK ME THE FUCK OUT.

Even if he isn't her dad, I guess I still named Cylon 7 Daniel. (Even if I had him as one of the Final Five). But dude...scary.

And yes, I would totally go for Kara as the child of Daniel and Ellen. Then I would win TWICE. XD (Although separate crazy ideas combined...)

ARGH, and next week I will be offline for FOUR DAYS around BSG-day so I'll have to wait until LATE MONDAY to find out more. :(

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Nice call, Chica. When I was watching and Kara got all excited about Daniel, I was like "I READ A FANFIC ABOUT THIS!!" Hee. FANON = CANON!

But then after when she said she held off the surgery till Sam said the name, so she knew it wasn't her, I got less excited. I think she didn't recognize the name after all.

And please do a full recap of what we learned here if you would at some point, so that lesser beings like myself who are easily distracted by Lee's red shirt and Boomer's bangs can get a clue about what all that infodump really told us. :)

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think that she was just hoping he was having a word-salad moment and wanted to make sure "Daniel" didn't mean "Kara" the way earlier he said, "Gazelle" instead of "Ellen."

And yes, I shall do my best to recap what I think happened! ;)

[nightxade.livejournal.com]

Yes please on the infodump. My cable was cutting out and my daughter was yelling at the cat so I missed a lot of Sam's revelation and am not quite sure about the logistics of what happened who to when. I understand the Humans made the Five then the Five made the Eight, but I missed things like who destroyed all the humans on Earth and why there are Cylon bodies on Earth only and why only one copy of each of the Five managed to make it to the Colonies (is Cavil really that good?)

[obsessive-a101.livejournal.com]

LOL... When I first heard them first say Daniel on-screen, I totally spazzed out, and was "OMGods! Daniel Thrace! Fanfic! She was right in her speculation!" LOL! Until this moment I didn't realize that you made up the name Daniel. XD However, there's also the fact that Ellen called him an "artist," and that definitely reminded me of Kara and her father. (o_o)

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

I feel kinda guilty that I apparently made so many people do a distracting double-take under false pretences because I made them think Kara's dad's name was canonically Daniel!

But yes, I'm clinging to the artist thing, and the fact it was revealed to Kara first. *bites nails*

[chaila.livejournal.com]

DUDE. YOU MADE UP THE NAME DANIEL????? I think I just assumed there was some canon backstory that said his name was Daniel. And therefore I took this week's ep as CONFIRMATION OF YOUR GENIUS. But now I might take it as confirmation of your PROPHETIC ABILITIES.

I LOVE CAVIL MORE THAN ANY OTHER CYLON. HE IS FRAKKING BRILLIANT. THERE I SAID IT.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Yes, indeed, it was just some name I thought sounded good with "Thrace," and possibly it was influenced by the fact that there was a Daniel Greystone and therefore I figured, okay, it is a human name that exists in the world.

I will be...majorly creeped out yet also exstatic if I turn out to be prophetic on this front and will begin to question whether I could possibly have found that name elsewhere even more strongly than I already am. o_O

But I'm trying to manage my expectations.

ALSO YES CAVIL WAS AMAZING HERE. I don't love him but...I love what the show has done with him.

[chaila.livejournal.com]

I don't LOVE love Cavil, like the way I love Laura or Bill or anyone else really, but I LOOOOOVE what the show does with him. I LOOOOOVED his speech about the limits of being human and I just love that he EXISTS to explicate so brilliantly the other side of the humanism question. Because we have a whole lot of romanticizing "being human" and we have a whole lot of people wanting to meet in the middle, but he's the ONLY ONE voicing the other side of the question (see e.g. Natalie/Cavil icon I refused to give up in the hopes that these questions would COME BACK). And I love that he was the orchestrator of much of this and that it raises all the questions of limiting self-awareness and knowledge and and complexifies EVERYTHING and I just . . . trails off into *flail*

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Abso-frakkin'-lutely.

I mean, there is also the complication that the other side of the humanism equation is being expressed by someone so..."evil" (in quotes because I'm not an absolutist but, you know what I mean). It kind of suggests that the show doesn't give equal weight to those concerns.

That said, his frustration and anger, while juvenile, were compelling and given a lot of time and space in this episode.

And while the Final Five made the eight models in the image of humans, Ellen's attitude toward them and decisions in their creation betrays a decidedly nonhumanist perspective. In that she made hoardes of identical copies and sees no oddness in the fact that Cavil is simultaneously an old man and a little boy. Indeed the very fact that Anders says they cherished him, having truly believed that they were creating life full-sprung from their own foreheads - like them, not inferior, even if conceived in a different fashion argues against a binary view of human and machine (although...they're also all machines in this equation).

So like...on the one hand, I wish someone who was likely to end up on the "winning" side would point out how much the Cylon lose when they embrace humanism at the expense of their Cylonicity (multiple copies, gestalt identity, resurrection). That someone who matters would say, "Hey, why are these limitations a good thing?"

But at least someone's saying that, and is making rather compelling arguments about it too. To be honest, Cavil is treated much more complexly here than Zarek was last week.

Ultimately I think Boomer could be instrumental in this - if she doesn't lose her views entirely even as she rejects Cavil's more petulant, violent and vengeful twist on them.

[asta77.livejournal.com]

But it sort of sounded like maybe they never got beyond the prototype before John nuked the line, but the prototype was okay?

Ellen said due to the contamination caused by Cavil all the copies were destroyed. So what happened to the original? Hmmmm......

[cyborganize.livejournal.com]

spoiler alert: YOU ARE A CYLON.

*backs away slowly*

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Dude, if I'm a cylon, why are you backing away? ;)

[cyborganize.livejournal.com]

LOL JK. *glomps you*