Vague meta on post-BSG-finale production and general rambling.

[beccatoria]

You guys, it's been like a week since I posted here. That's crazy. But really nothing has happened. I didn't get that cool job I wanted so blah. But at least I have a part-time typing job in the meantime that I don't hate and in this economy I'm lucky to have that.

Also I am SO TIRED and already tried going to bed once, but it didn't work. So instead I'm here. LUCKY YOU.

As to my title, well...

I was mostly just wondering if you guys agreed with me. It...seems to me that in the wake of the finale, fan-production has really slowed down. After the initial flood of post-finale realistic-on-earth fic and stuff I mean. Which is to be expected; canon is closed and all. But...my limited previous experience about ends of fandoms is that there's a longer "OMG NOW WE CAN PLAY EVERYWHERE!" buzz.

I admit that I don't really read much fic so like...I'm not in the best position to judge. It's not like I really pay attention to the_wireless or anything. So...probably I'm crazy. But I do pay slightly more attention to vids.

And I've noticed:

1) vid production was down in general from what it was during seasons two and three that's been true all season and I think probably during season 4 too. It think, sad as it may be to admit it, our fandom just shrunk.

2) the vids that have been published are nowhere near as finale- or whole-journey-centric as I was expecting. Again, this is potentially just my bias and the fact I'm no longer quite as "I'LL WATCH EVERYTHING!" as I once was. And there have been a few, like, Laura vids for instance that are about her whole storyline and I just don't have the heart to watch them. So it's possible again, my sample is biased. But honestly, the couple of times I've geared myself up to watch a vid with spoilers through the finale, the vids themselves seem to be...often very Battlestar-Redactica-compatible. I mean, they aren't. Because often you get the epic shots of people in fields on Earth at an End Point, or Ships Sailing At The Sun. Or Adama Addressing Everyone in the Hangar Deck. But...I find the vids surprisingly consistant in the storylines they choose to not show or not address. It's perhaps less surprising that they don't wallow in the events of Deadlock or Tyrol's murderous Eight Killing Spree. But I have been surprised that inclusion of Daybreak is so limited. Sometimes the included element is Kara jumping the ship. Or maybe it's the five on the catwalk. But...the shots are almost always so...

It's probably my bias but it's almost like the vids are, as a favour to me, performing their own miniature Battlestar Redactica treatment. "Sure, we're ending with the people on Earth because that's a lovely endpoint image, but let's not really spend any time on HOW they get there. They just do and it probably wasn't as lame as it was on the show." Or, "Sure, Kara jumps them SOMEWHERE but let's cut away before we really get into where." Or, "Yeah so the shot of the ships in front of the sun is pretty, but they could totally just be flying past it."

I guess I'm just kind of surprised (and relieved) that even if it's just my bias, I really feel that there's an odd lack of vids that are interested in just generally retelling the story of 4.5 and are oddly self-regulating in just...not mentioning the crap bits? Unlike post Revelations or Crossroads or LDYB when EVERY VID EVER would just be ALL ABOUT the story arc that got them there? Rather than just the final image and a kind of moratorium on spending too much time on what came before?

/craziness.

Anyway, is that just me?

Comments

[sache8.livejournal.com]

Wow, it is so weird that you posted this today because I'm finally getting somewhere with my BSG vid again after about five weeks of being totally blocked at 1:30 in. This is the same vid that you helped me get miniseries clips for. Ironically, it's a Season 1 vid only, and so is the one that I'm going to do next. I've got a whole slew of BSG vid bunnies down the pipe, all of which I hope are really memorable. Personally, I think they've all come out of the closet because since canon is closed, I don't have the "I'll hold out for potentially better clips" thing going on anymore.

I hope to have this vid done within the week, at the latest.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Oooh, yay! I'll definitely look forward to seeing that though it is interesting that your next two vids will be season one vids.

I have a fair few vid bunnies two, but none of them really deal with the finale cus I didn't like it much. Although I do understand the not holding out for better clips thing. I just find it interesting that the vids that are being made don't seem to be including those clips?

Anyway, I'm totally looking forward to your vids! :D

[sache8.livejournal.com]

Vid's done! Here: http://sache8.livejournal.com/281974.html

I have a Kara vid and a Kara/Sam vid further down the pipe, both for which I plan on drawing from the finale, but not exclusively. I'm honestly having trouble deciding which one to do first. Probably the ship vid, since I have more pieces of it figured out in my head and trolling those eps will help me find more footage for the other. They draw from the same material, thematically.

It's late... I must make myself go to sleep...

Hope you enjoy the vid! Couldn't have done it without you. :-)

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Just wanted to let you know I'm really looking forward to this, but I won't be able to watch for a few days as I'm about to run off on vacation! :)

[nicole-anell.livejournal.com]

That's fascinating, I never thought about the fact that I saw SO MANY VIDS at one point that ended with burned Earth in "Revelations" or the events of "Crossroads". And maybe I haven't been watching as many BSG vids, or less have been coming out, but there don't seem to be any of those kinds of overviews post-finale. Not sure how I feel about that.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I'm honestly not sure how I feel about it either. I mean, on the one hand I'm glad because I don't really want to acknowledge the finale. On the other hand, it's a sign that maybe fandom is...just wandering off into nothing and that makes me sad. Because I'm not ready to let go of it.

Dammit fandom, why do you have to prove my instincts about the finale kind of right in the WORST WAY EVER.

*clings to fandom*

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

I think your instincts about why fan production is down (and it totally is) are right. Many, many fans by and large were disappointed with the finale for their own reasons. Some were even ragey and hurt. A big cross-section of those people are not interested in creating new things right now because of it, and/or are creating with just the parts of the show that they enjoyed.

I've never done any gen vids (except Come to Jesus which was technically a limited scope vidlet about religion), nor any gen fic. I've always focused on just the parts that I liked (mostly Kara and the K/L storyline). There were far fewer parts that I liked in 4.0 and 4.5, thus less to feel inspirational and creative about.

Personally, my own output has suffered a bit for other reasons. My vid mojo disappeared somewhere shortly after I did my own IFVP project and created a vid I was especially pleased with. I still have ideas but none have grabbed me and insisted that I run with them RIGHT NOW. At the same time, my fic mojo amped up and I have been doing a lot of that. The balance will probably change again at some point.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think it's two things. Firstly that there were so many things that annoyed different fans in different ways, and basically no one except A/R or Gaius/Six fans got good storyline endings and half the A/R fans were probably pissed at Laura's lack of agency and half the Gaius/Six fans (*waves hand*) might well have been put off by the overall screwing over the of the Cylon and Caprica's travesty of a storyline in 4.5.

And then on top of that, canon is so closed now there's not really a lot to do? As chaila43 fascinatingly mentions below, visually the final episode is quite odd to have to use in a vid and storywise, either you're stuck writing camping stories, or you have to deal with big, epic, metay mytharc stuff that...like the visuals, feels very "bolted on" to what came before? And it makes it an unsatisfying experience?

There was just something about that finale that felt like it shut everything down and not so much in a good way?

I think what really upsets me most is that fandom DOESN'T seem to be using its general way of "fixing" things they don't like so much. Perhaps because to continue you almost literally DO need to just ignore the finale entirely and that's really not easy. Not even for me?

I'm really glad to hear that at least your fic mojo is alive and well. I mean, it makes sense that different creative endeavours have a different balance with you at different times but I'm at least glad you're not flat-out leaving yet.

*clings to everyone*

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Yes, the fail goes all the way around. Even if you got a "good" ending, there's gotta be stuff in it you are probably unhappy with.

Been reading the comments below and I definitely agree that canon is closed in a unique way here. Probably because the ending of this particular show is literally in a whole new world where no one is left but the men (mostly) in a very primitive life. Camping and Farming and Cavemen stories? blegh. So you have to crawl back earlier in canon to play with stuff that feels like the show we loved all those years.

I think that might be my method of coping, because like you say to Pellucid I'm not ready to leave this big a hole in my life right now. I've been reading a lot of my favorite s1 and s2 fic and I want to try to write some.

And I'm gonna work out my vid mojo, maybe doing some multi-fandom projects. Those just take time to acquire sources though.

I'll cling with you friend!!

[daybreak777.livejournal.com]

Interesting post. I think fan production has been down for a while. But it depends on where you look. I saw that gaeta_squee fan production was up from BOTS up until now. Lots of fic, but not vids. Gaeta is hard to vid. Though there have been a few interesting ones, just recently.

I have a theory too I was going to share in my journal but didn't somehow. I think that a lot of people have one big project in them summing up how they feel about the finale. For some it's a big meta post, for others it's a vid or fan edit and for others it's a picspam or fic. Some people haven't done their 'thing' yet and others never will. Time is passing. What I did notice is those who did this big series-ending fanwork, well they're tired. It takes a lot of energy. And maybe they don't have more to say and that's their final word.

I had lots to vid! Still do. One was a sort of series encompassing vid. I'm not going to make that vid. I don't have the same feelings I'd need in order to vid it. And like you with Laura, I have trouble watching any vids with Kara. And for my own vidding, I don't know what to do with the last parts of Daybreak. I don't want to see it which makes it hard to vid. I don't want to 'fix' it but I don't want to rewatch it, either. For me, AU is the move. My BSG AU vid bunnies (of which there are several) are unaffected but I've been trying to get some fics out of the way first.

I have seen some good vids of season 4.5. Not a ton. And yeah, there were more vids after Revelations but even those did take time to come out. Maybe in a few months? Or maybe a closed canon isn't as freeing as it seemed? I don't really know.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

It's very interesting to me to hear about the Gaeta comm and I kind of have a bit of a theory?

Which is that the finale shut down so much in such a strange way, this weird "just accept it" and then marooning them on a planet where the canon implies that "it's just okay now, shut up". And as I said above, you actually have to start ignoring stuff in order to "fix" it or "meta-write/meta-vid/just-plain-meta". You have to go AU. And like you, I'm fine with that in principle. As you know, I've already done it. But when there's JUST AUs because we don't like the non-AU we start to lose the bindings of our community; canon. Because we no longer have one unifying thing we all agree on and then spin off of for fun? The thing that binds us together is also the thing that depresses us and it's not like there's an easy place for everyone to just decide to make the break?

Whereas with Gaeta, even if some fans were not happy with how his story ended, his story still felt like a complete story, and it ended before the show itself started getting weird on us? So response to Gaeta's story end is more in line with what I'd expect from a fandom with closed canon? Even closed canon that had a very mixed response?

I think that you're right about everyone having a Big Thing to say about it and then not necessarily being sure what to do next. Obvs, I'm still kind of in the middle of mine, and then I plan to take a brief vidding break to do something different but I do want to come back to BSG. If only because...I don't feel like I've processed enough yet. Though I'm also afraid it won't help.

Or maybe a closed canon isn't as freeing as it seemed? I don't really know.

I think this closed canon isn't as freeing as it seems because the canon itself isn't?

[asta77.livejournal.com]

We already discussed some of this and my personal feelings on needing a break, so I shall not be redundant. But I wanted to add that I've always viewed nearly all fic as AU. Missing scene fic taking place within a specific episode I would view as working within canon, but anything that creates (or expands on) a relationship or scenario that didn't actually happen on the show or was alluded to in some way I see as, I like to refer to it, the 'What if?' scenario.

I think my fears for BSG fandom's future is curbed by surviving Buffy fandom. My participation in Buffy fandom was not as great as BSG fandom, but I still feel confidant in saying there were a lot of complaints about the final season of Buffy and a lot of anger and displeasure with the finale. Personally, I was somewhat 'meh' about it. But even with the disappointment, the fandom still exists and I still see meta pop up on my Flist as well as links to fic and vids.

And BSG fandom is picking up new people everyday with those that missed it on SciFi catching up on DVD. I like to think we are just in a recession right now. ;)

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

I totally agree that nearly all fics are AU in some way. I think what I'm trying to get at is that there are still degrees of that and having to much more obviously start from that stance is different to spinning off from a more accepted canon? At least, more people within fandom feel they need to distance themselves more from parts of canon, it will have a knock-on effect?

I do take heart from shows like Farscape and Buffy which continue to have a strong presence. And realistically I know that I, too, will move on to other things. I suppose this is just so different from my experiences with, say, Farscape fandom where fan production exploded for a time after the finale that...well, I'm trying to parse the differences?

I certainly think that the ambivalence many fans feel toward the end of the show in BSG is playing a part in this hiatus, whereas in the wake of Farscape's final episode, with all of the cancellation stuff going on, there was a much larger sense of love and solidarity with the show which probably helped bolster the desire to keep it alive.

[asta77.livejournal.com]

I'm still contemplating my 'thing' which is a Lee/Laura centric fic. Not only was I feeling fandom weary following the finale, but I honestly believe the fic will work better (and be better received) with some time. Not to mention, my idea is much plottier than anything I've tackled before.

I'm sure I'm not the only one with ideas, I think a lot of just need some time after the intensity of the finale and reaction to it. And it's only been a few months. I don't feel fandom is dead. Just mirroring the series and taking a lengthy hiatus. ;)

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Well I'm happy to wait however long I have to for this story because you know I'm very excited about it. But also I don't want to bug you about it cus I know it's still in early stages.

But yes, you may be right that we're just on hiatus. I certainly hope so. I guess it worries me because there's no pre-ordained start-again point like there usually is with a hiatus.

I wonder if The Plan might help? It might function as a breath of "classic" BSG for fandom and help not let the mixed-response to the finale be the last of canon we see?

[frolicndetour.livejournal.com]

That's very interesting. I don't watch enough videos to really say, but from my small corner I was just thinking that I haven't seen any vids that offer a comprehensive take on Kara's story the way there have been for all the other seasons. It's too bad from my perspective, because that's one of the only aspects of 4.5 that I'm currently interested in coming to terms with. ;) I would also like to see more vids like "Loved Her to Ribbons," which take apart the Fail. (Like, I would love to commission an angry feminist take on Tyrol and All His Women, speaking of angry killing sprees. Because, seriously.)

So I haven't seen much, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. I also haven't watched certain vids that I could tell were going to make me too sad, so I'm similarly biased.

I don't want the fandom to die yet. :(

[emmiere.livejournal.com]

I don't know if you've seen this Kara vid, but it's almost completely season 4 through the finale and very destiny driven. More than a little sad because it's very isolating.

[frolicndetour.livejournal.com]

NO, I was actually thinking as I was typing that I had still not watched that one. I'll definitely give it a try. (Even though I'd also like to see one that focuses more on her connections to people and how they developed/resolved. Even Billmo, possibly. ;p)

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

I love that vid - although as I say above, I kind of include it in my list of vids that Use-The-Finale-But-Not-Really. Because the vidder doesn't ever let Kara get to Earth. The only stuff of her in the finale we see is her plotting the jump, devoid of context and a very confused, almost creepy shot of her as they jump into Earth a planet. And the decision to then cut away from that and instead show her burning her own corpse on Earth seems like a strong statement about the strongest parts of her story, what they were, and the coherency of it? I mean basically the vid does not acknowledge the POOF or any of the "God just did it" mytharc end that...really pertains to character's story arc as much as it pertains to anything? Which is interesting?

[emmiere.livejournal.com]

I kind of include it in my list of vids that Use-The-Finale-But-Not-Really.

No, I think it fits perfectly into that category. Unlike you, I didn't draw the connection to arriving Earth as something more sinister, but I'm now kind of fascinated by the possibilities in your interpretation, which I think is fully supported by the vid. But I do think you can also fit this into canon Kara POV, since the strongest non-angelic theme was Earth=Kara's end. So I didn't really view it as separated from the arc of the show, but more that it was focused so exclusively on Kara that actual Earth was an unnecessary addition since it's never for her. It's a much stronger climax and end to her journey with fire rather than disappearing in a field. Regardless, it's only vid I've seen that comes closest to reclaiming Kara's story per prolix_allie's wish.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Well, I think that it came across as creepy to me only because it was so strongly rooted in Kara's POV and as you say, the reading of Earth as Kara's end. I guess I figure any planet that leaves Kara with that look of fear/awe/dread and causes us to literally not see what happens next but instead cut back to her burning her own body must be frakking awesome but probably also a little sinister?

It's interesting that simply by refusing to include that scene on Earth that tries to make us see Kara's end as serene and somehow fulfilled, it puts such a different tone on her storyline. Or perhaps it's not surprising since that was the much more consistant tone before that one end scene?

Basically you're right, this is the only vid I've scene that reclaims Kara's story, and I think it does it fantastically. But it also does it by pointedly deciding not to include the actual endpoint to her story and saying that the penultimate part of it makes a better endpoint?

/random musings.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

I completely second emmiere's recommendation of that Kara vid and I think you'd actually like it mainly because it's...almost entirely Redactica-compatible if you take the whole "and eventually they get to some planet under entirely different circumstances due to a BETTER mytharc" view. Because basically the only stuff we see of her in the finale is the actual moment she jumps the ship and inputs the co-ordinates. Which in itself was kind of cool. And the vidder makes the fantastic decision to show her quiet, terrified, "What the frak have I done," look, then cut to Galactica floating over the moon, then end the vid with Kara burning her own body on NukedEarth (which I still stubbornly insist should have been the only one but whatever!)

So like...there is NOTHING positive about getting to Earth in this vid. It's creepy, eerie, compelling, and the vidder posits that moment of uncertainty as the real end to Kara's story then moves the final narrative beat back to her being stuck burning her own body. It takes it from "OHYAY ANGEL!" and returns it to the far darker, lovecraftian weirdness they kept hinting at for the earlier part of the season. And now I'll stop babbling. But really, it's a very good vid, but not one I consider at odds with my theory above?

I would like more FAIL vids too. I think the problem is finding a way to definitely classify the thing as a FAIL vid. Which is what makes Loved Her to Ribbons so genius; it's clear presentation of that.

I'm also now torn between wanting to find a song that would let me vid FailTyrol as an angry feminist, thinking it couldn't be done because people who liked the storyline would think I was seriously giving it attention as a "dark" and "edgy" storyline and being TERRIFIED of doing it because I'd have to rewatch the EVOL TORY KILLING which I just... That may actually be the grossest thing in the entire finale.

I don't want the fandom to die yet. :(

*clings to you*

LET'S NOT LET IT.

[frolicndetour.livejournal.com]

I would like more FAIL vids too. I think the problem is finding a way to definitely classify the thing as a FAIL vid. Which is what makes Loved Her to Ribbons so genius; it's clear presentation of that.

YES. I think someone should do one with the characters in the show commenting on the show and their own storylines, though I have no idea if that's at all feasible. I just have this vision of Tory puking in reaction to the boys on safari shot. ;) Or the corpse-bride scene. I can't decide!

I'm also now torn between wanting to find a song that would let me vid FailTyrol as an angry feminist, thinking it couldn't be done because people who liked the storyline would think I was seriously giving it attention as a "dark" and "edgy" storyline and being TERRIFIED of doing it because I'd have to rewatch the EVOL TORY KILLING which I just... That may actually be the grossest thing in the entire finale.

I imagine it would be hard to make a Tory-vid that focused on material from 4.5 because none of it was from her POV. I think that one line from Ellen about how she never could be alone was the closest we got to being invited to feel sympathy for her. Meh. I almost think it would be easier to focus the vid more on Tyrol and his agency in the whole Boomer/Chief/Cally/Tory quadrangle of DOOM. Because it kind of kills me that of those four, he's the one character that we're supposed to really feel sympathy for. Even though I can feel some sympathy for him if I try hard enough, but just ... no.

LET'S NOT LET IT.

No ma'am! *resolved*

[emmiere.livejournal.com]

Well, from casually watching the_wireless, I feel I can safely say that Adama/Roslin output has not slowed down at all, but they might be the only ones.

I only started poking around the fandom after 4x10 aired, so it was really obvious to me that all of the new vids coming out tended to end with dead!Earth or used it in a big way because that was most of what I was seeing to start out with. But, I think you're right that there been a lot of...selection going on in the few post-finale vids I've seen. And there's not many, no. Maybe it's that canon can only really supports a certain kind of broad overview? The possibilites are more limited this time because there's literally nowhere left to go.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Somehow I managed to completely miss this comment to reply to. How weird. o_O

But yeah, it sadly doesn't surprise me about A/R but then, they always dominated that comm anyway from what I remember.

I also think that I might well be completely biased although I do have slightly longer exposure to vids than you. But yeah, I think you have a good point about the overview that the ending supports being very specific and it also not being the kind of overview that I'm all that interested in and perhaps others feel likewise?

The few overview vids I have seen have tended to a) make fairly minimal use of the finale and b) be more about the loss and futility of the actual journey rather than the ending or mytharc.

I do think that to an extent even if the ending to the mytharc HAD been satisfying and characters hadn't gotten screwed over, the ending they were going for on prehistoric Earth is just so final there wouldn't be anywhere else to go. But I can't help but feel if fandom were generally more happy with that ending, then AU, post-finale, pre-finale, etc., production wouldn't have slowed down quite the way it has?

[pellucid.livejournal.com]

I was just saying to gabolange last night that I feel so over BSG, and then today I clicked the "stop watching" button on the_wireless because I haven't been remotely tempted to read a BSG fic in ages. I mean, highly recommended ones that are doing cool critical things I will read, and I'm feeling generally more amenable to vids (and really will get to Battlestar Redactica one of these days if I ever have time to breathe!!!), and I've got to write my remix fic (god, what was I thinking when I signed up for that?!?!?!?). But for the most part I feel like I've done my processing, I'm still pretty bitter, and now I need some distance. I suspect I'm not alone in this.

But I agree that it's odd the way fan production has gone down--I've noticed this more in galacticanews than the_wireless (which continues to be overrun with Adama/Roslin fics). It doesn't track with any other closed canon in any fandom I'm familiar with--with X-Files, SG-1, Farscape, things continued going strong in the immediate aftermath and continued to be almost as active for a year or two after the show had finished as it had been when it was airing. Yet with BSG, I suspect because of the overwhelming disappointment, it was like that period of post-finale productivity only lasted for about three or four weeks.

I wonder, too, if it has something to do with the nature of the ending. The "oh, it was God; just accept it" thing really felt to me like it foreclosed a lot of inquiry. The grand mytharcy stories just aren't as interesting now (I say, even as I contemplate writing one) because of the way things ended. And the idea of writing fic about any number of characters who ended up with such shittily unsatisfactory endings is also a bit disheartening--realizing how far my Laura and Lee in "Order of Succession" were from the Laura and Lee of the finale was damned depressing, and I am not inclined to go through an exercise like that again.

Oh, stupid show!!!

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

It sadly doesn't surprise me that A/R output is still unchanged since I always uncharitably shied away from that relationship and corner of fandom because I felt like the majority would, well, enjoy a storyline like they got in 4.5 and apparently I was right.

And regarding Redactica, obviously my opinion is that it's worth a view, but I've also heard that commeting on/viewing that thing is something no one should feel worried about or pressured into doing. ;) "Whenever," is the mantra to remember!

You're completely right about how closed it makes the mytharc. It took a lot of the most fascinating aspects of the whole thing and gave them such reductive answers that unless we WHOLESALE reject the finale and vast tracts of 4.5 we cannot actually fix it? Which is fandom's default response to bad events in canon?

I think one of the reasons I don't just want to take a break is I'm scared I'd never come back and...so much of what I invested my time in would lose meaning and even my vids would start to be associated with bad memories (which, to be melodramatic, they kind of already are in some ways). And I literally have nothing to replace it with. If I take a break, it'll leave a hole in my life and I kind of need my life to be full of distractions at the moment. Although ideally it would not be a distraction that was this...emotionally complex?

And then there's the hard part of gearing myself up to try and NOT take a break from fandom and having to watch a lot of my friends wander away with bad tastes in their mouths which...makes me sad?

Note: I'm not judging you for this because, really, I think your response is both sane and sensible.

It's just...like you say. Oh, stupid show!!! Why do you have to put us all in this shitty position?!

*SHOWSMASH*

[chaila.livejournal.com]

Fucking A/R fic is crawling all over the place. Excuse my language. >:/

But overall, this is an interesting observation. I am much more in touch with vids as opposed to fic, obvs. Re: the lack of vids, I wonder if it's just because it would be hard to vid everything in a coherent way? Even if one liked 4.5, that doesn't make it any easier to tie the end to what came before and make a vid that makes sense. I even think it would be hard to make a character vid for most of the characters. Like, it borders on easy to vid Kara as a hybrid because there's lots of support in the images and connections, but the only way to vid Kara as an angel is to show the final poof. And even if it didn't bother you, it still doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It's just. . . there. And Lee? Even if you wanted to, how could you make a coherent Lee vid when all you have up to Daybreak is future!president Lee and then Daybreak gives you a mountain climber? Is there a song about that?

Get some rest!

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

And Lee? Even if you wanted to, how could you make a coherent Lee vid when all you have up to Daybreak is future!president Lee and then Daybreak gives you a mountain climber? Is there a song about that?

OMG I now have the image of Lee in lederhosen and the hat with the feather going up a mountain like the little Cliffhanger game figure on THE PRICE IS RIGHT!!! Do da dee do do, do da dee do do, do da dee, do da dee, do da dee do....whooooooo (as he falls off the edge). HAHA!

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

AHAHAHAHA!

And yet the cruelty is, one could not vid it because...yeah, where's the footage?

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

If I only had colorforms... or paper dolls. And a video camera. HEE. Shadowbox theatre...

[metatxt.livejournal.com]

Lee in lederhosen = EPIC CROSSOVER WITH SOUND OF MUSIC. He's just self-righteous enough to make it work.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Love that icon. Hee. Is he the captain? And Kara is a wayward nun? And the kids are nuggets? Kat is Leisl? Hotdog as the messenger boy nazi? Romo as the music group manager? Laura as the duchess? Tigh as mother superior. Adama as Hitler.

Starring the hit songs:
How do you solve a problem like Starbuck?
Chamalla (instead of Eidelweiss)
I am Rookie going on Ensign

OK I need to stop.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

OK I need to stop.

No. No you really don't. Ever.

All the nuggets can bid Kara "so long, farewell, auf wiedersein, goodbye," as she turns into a metaphorical pigeon of poof. o_O

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

Is A/R really a big thing in the fandom?

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

It's ABSOLUTELY HUGE. It just...kept growing and growing and growing. Probably cus the only other major 'ship - K/L (which I also don't ship, cus I'm awkward that way it seems) kept getting shafted for canonical coverage by the end while A/R just...it turned into the A/R fanservice show by 4.5.

Like everyone and their DOG ships A/R it seems. *is bitter*

*realises she's turned into a bitter anti-shipper*

*cries*

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

I'm surprised, it really is not your traditional pairing in tv terms.

I quite liked it before it turned into 'OMG I sacrifice everythign for my dying girlfriend and finally go off and die with her', and that whole turning Roslin into a woman who really didn't want all that power adn responsibility, all she really wanted was to have a man. And presumably be barefoot and pregnant.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

For a long time what mollified me about the A/R fanservice was the fact that it's so unusual to have a TV show let the big, epic, romance be among two people on the older side of middle age.

Even if I think it would have been both more interesting and more daring to let her shack up with Lee. ;)

So while I was both resigned to the inevitability of A/R and against it simply because by that point, I'd starting disliking Bill Adama in the extreme and was fairly sure the show wasn't trying to provoke that reaction in me, I was prepared to accept it as Not An Awful Thing.

Until, as you say, they used it to totally wreck her character and undermine any of the awesomeness of having middle-aged characters in the spotlight by turning it into a giant, sexist cliche.

Unfortunately it seems a lot of the fanbase for that relationship had little problem with that because I guess the relationship > the actual characterisation or thematic message it conveyed.

It might be pertinent to note that a common shorthand term for the ship is "Mom and Dad," which...I never specifically thought about or had a particular problem with before because casting those two as the "parents" of the Fleet is hardly new, but it does make me wonder if it's telling in retrospect. That the reason the relationship was more acceptable to the general public was because it had a nice, easy, wholesome image it could fit into? The leaders and parents of the Fleet, which simultaenously helped mitigate the "old" factor especially when the story made sure to fit it into the least offensive, most sexist stereotypes of "parents" ever?

Again, I'm aware I might come across as bitter, but I feel you probably understand why given your closing paragraph.

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

Yes, that would make sense of it. And fits with the whole ethos of 'easy answers' that Battlestar served up in the end. Mum and Dad love each other and go off into the sunset together. True love wins out, and Baltar and Six go off to lead simple rustic farming lives together. God did everything because He is ineffable, so don't question it just accept. It's alright for a man to kill a woman if she was a bitch.

... wait.

/ still bitter.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Oh, dude, I fucking swear all the fucking time and in this instance your fucking language is entirely fucking acceptable. >:(

I think your comments about how hard it is to vid is really well made actually. It's such a 180, thematically, from so much that was shown before that unlike in fic where you can write it all out...how do you vid that? I hadn't thought of it that way before but...it's a really great observation.

I think it's really telling that the vid emmiere links above, the only Kara's Mytharc Through The Finale vid I've found/seen, basically COMPLETELY ignores the poof and emotionally and thematically chooses to stick with a sense of malignant, creepy unknown for her fate and destiny. It works really well but I definitely classify it as a vid that uses the finale for its own purpose and message, in many ways in as transformative way as Redactica.

[metatxt.livejournal.com]

I wonder if it's just because it would be hard to vid everything in a coherent way

I think what you're hitting on though is the major critique of 4.5 Even if you like 4.5 emotionally, or appreciate the surface themes, it isn't consistent with the themes that had been built up until that point. So it's hard to have a cohesive series-encompassing vid, if only because *so* much fan labor is required to justify it as seamless.

also: if gets Lee in lederhosen, I demand he sings in an epic Sound of Music crossover. (oh gods, can I make a Lee Adama vid with a song from SoM??? *bats away crack bunnies*)

FUCKING FUCK A/R CAN FUCKING DIE IN A FUCKING AIRLOCK.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

(oh gods, can I make a Lee Adama vid with a song from SoM??? *bats away crack bunnies*)

WHY YES. YES YOU CAN.

[chaila.livejournal.com]

if you like 4.5 emotionally, or appreciate the surface themes, it isn't consistent with the themes that had been built up until that point.

Oh absolutely. This is what I meant, but you said it much better. I think it goes beyond requiring intensive fan labor and merges into impossiblity. I mean, without outside footage or something, I don't think you can take the finale and make fit in any way with what came before, even if you liked it and really want to. This may be my prejudice talking, but I also think that people who DID like it are not producing tons of output because they have to distance themselves in many ways to love it. Except A/R people who are pretty much just producing 6 million fics about building cabins on the shores of the Styx. More widely, there's definitely a sense of "stop talking about it, your criticism is harshing my love." Production requires examination, and I find it hard to believe that BSG holds up to that kind of examination for too many people who would be inclined to explore the larger themes of the show. Even if you want to like the themes and the ending, the path to there is just not on the page.

"I HAVE CONFIDENCE." I AM JUST SAYING.

FUCKING FUCK A/R CAN FUCKING DIE IN A FUCKING AIRLOCK.

I bet I could find a fic about that for you. Probably several, actually.

[metatxt.livejournal.com]

The closed ending didn't offer closure though because if they offered closed answers they were thematically inconsistent with the information offered up until that point.

Anyway, point being, this makes me wonder about give and take in fandom relationships. Mythology heavy shows have been trending in television for awhile, but what made some succeed and others fail was often tied to the ratio between what is asked of the audience and what is offered to the audience. It seems to me as though with the closed/lack-of-closure, aside from the A/R fanbase who are generally nuts, they asked a lot without offering anything substantial in return. I mean this extends well beyond usual fan labor and into the realm of fixing their frak ups.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

The closed ending didn't offer closure though because if they offered closed answers they were thematically inconsistent with the information offered up until that point.

I really like your differentiation between a closed answer and actual closure. It's a very elegant was of explaining my problems with 4.5 and is about as close as I'm ever likely to come to that mythical and impossible one-line, simple rebuttal of "but you just don't get it!"

Obviously I completely agree with what you're saying about how much work the finale required me to do in order to render it thematically consistant with the rest of the series and not a bandaid out of nowhere that tied everything up in a superficially neat bow but really made no sense. That said, the infuriating problem is how to explain why to people who genuinely do not feel that way and honestly think that the closed answers we received actually answered any of the previously raised questions.

And to that I think there is really no answer.

And perhaps the real reason that there's less fan production is that we're all so tired of having to try and answer that impossible question with everything we produce. Because everything we produce puts us on one side or the other of the divide whether we want it to or not. I mean, I obviously have strong views I wouldn't want my fanstuff to hide, but not everyone feels that way. But it's kind of impossible to avoid.

Probably by now I have stopped making sense. :(

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

"Sure, we're ending with the people on Earth because that's a lovely endpoint image, but let's not really spend any time on HOW they get there. They just do and it probably wasn't as lame as it was on the show." Or, "Sure, Kara jumps them SOMEWHERE but let's cut away before we really get into where." Or, "Yeah so the shot of the ships in front of the sun is pretty, but they could totally just be flying past it."
LOLZ, that's the route I'm taking.

I planned fic for thearchive2 for each episode with the challenges, but I'm still feeling rather "blah" about 4.5 to the point where I don't want to do anything with it fannishly like vid or write fic or make graphics. I think BSG fandom in general has slowed down. I hope that the movie, The Plan, will respark fandom in general though.

With Kara and Lee, I see the finale as saying that they will never work, which puts a blanket over many fannish things. With Roslin and Adama, the finale set them up as having true love, which looks to have sparked the fannish creativity. I don't like the idea of Roslin and Adama together because of the affect they had on each other. They brought out the traits I don't like in them. I enjoyed their relationship for most of the series, even the beginnings of their romance, but they changed too much as characters for me to be fannish about their romantic relationship.