Meme: Top Fives!

[beccatoria]

Okay! So, Top Fives:


Top Five Female Characters - for chaila43.

This one is hard, you guys. I'm horribly under-read and, um, watched, so this isn't anything like an objective opinion about the greatest women in fictional history, nor is it, really, "my favourite characters who happen to be girls," because I did feel at least some need to be...expansive at least to a degree. So really this is my Top Five of the Moment, which has some GLARING OMISSIONS of characters I spent...great deals of my life in love with so, I compromised and listed five, but included a "see also!" section at the end for other female characters I feel exist along...vaguely the same axis.

5. Xena! The reason Xena is here, rather than Buffy, or River, or a dozen other "warrior woman" stereotypes (yes, even the ones who were done really well, or whom I love dearly, like Aeryn Sun - and believe me, I love Aeryn Sun) is the fact that somehow? Despite wearing an ACTUAL ARMOUR BATHING SUIT, clearly designed to play into the Franz Frazetta tits and chainmail aesthetic, the sheer balls of Lucy Lawless' performance - not least her increasing willingness as the series went on, to pull the most fucking RIDICULOUS faces into the camera - prevented them from ever girlfying her. And like, I'm not trying to say that kickass women should never be feminine, hell no, but I do think that Xena rather fantastically avoided the "tiny girl, can kick your ass," cliche that's often actually more about how CUTE she looks before she kicks your ass (as part of a sexual fantasy) than actual power? While Xena? Could clearly actually kick your ass. Probably while making hilarious and unappealing bug-eye expressions at you.

See also: Miss Piggy. Ace (from Doctor Who). Susan Ivanova.

4. Supergirl. I should clarify I mean Kara Zor-El, Clark Kent's cousin, rather than the various other incarnations of the character after her original death in Infinite Crisis. I'm also glossing over the first arc of the relaunched series with that weird assassin-kryptonite-poisoning-whiny phase. I'm talking about her more recent arcs where she's starting to work out her own philosophy on superheroinism. I love how she keeps a lot of the Superman myth, the profound love and determination to make a difference. More than that, I love how she manages to be discovering her own character, one that's very distinct from her more famous cousin, but without the overly simplistic rebellious teenager thing. Kara is really pretty competant, even if she hasn't quite worked everything out yet. And I love the determination of anyone who will wait in space for 30 years so a time-travelling villain keeps jumping back and forward in time to escape only to find she's still there. And finally, I love that she is still working things out. She's learning who she's gonna be and who she's gonna be is shaping up to be pretty awesome. I love that she's not paralysed by fear of the future, or fear that she doesn't know best. She's decided she wants to help people not just save them, and maybe that'll end up in some freaky weird future with giant statues of her and cloned Batmen, and maybe not, but she's sure as hell going to try. And that's awesome.

See also: Olivia Dunham. Caprica Six.

3. Sarah Connor. Mostly I'm talking about the TV version here. Not because the movie version isn't awesome, but because she fits more into the "Xena" category to me. TV Sarah is a more...sober take on an action heroine. There's space for both and both are important, but while the "Xena" category is - to me - more about rejection of feminisation as the most important determinant in being "female", this category is more about characters whose action heroism exists in a glorious tangle of gender politics. I think there's probably something in there about waves of feminism but quite honestly I can't remember which is which. Sarah primarily self-identifies as a mother; her position as "important because she gave birth to robot fighting Jesus," is inherently precarious in terms of feminism, and yet the show tackles this and generally handles it very well. Similarly, she's the eye in the centre of a storm of "emotional (female) human versus logical (male) machine," and "never killed anyone and Derek thinks she's too soft," and "too overprotective," and she's the one with visions and prophetic dreams (even if wholly metaphorical) and is "crazy" by the standards of the modern world. And yet. She's nails and awesome and the entire damn show is named after her and maybe it's just because we'll never get to see the end of her story, but they didn't fail and I love them for it.

See also: Kara Thrace. The Jedi Exile (KOTOR II).

2. Morrigan Corde/Nyna Calixte. Quite aside from the fact it was the "Luke! I am your father!" of my life, and aside from the fact that her story is not finished, and perhaps, like Sarah's, it has six easy ways to fail at all times, I love this character. Incredibly competant, brutally scheming, with about seventeen plans and I'm convinced at least one of them is benevolent. A little. Maybe. If it involves one of her kids who don't know her, kind of hate her or both... :/

I'm also really intrigued by the way motherhood is handled with regards to her. I mean, she twice ditched out on her kids and left them to be raised by their fathers into their fathers' profession, to follow her own career and her own ambitions. And while the comic doesn't celebrate this, it doesn't exactly condemn it either. We're introduced to her as a benevolent secret protector, later revealed to have fingers in the very pies that wanted her kid dead in the first place, but by then, we're hooked and the comic quite definitely wants us to stay that way, not angry?

Also she does that whole sexy, manipulative spy thing without it being entirely icky and bonus points for kick-ass women over 40 who are still allowed to be attractive!

See also: Irina Derevko. Head Six. Mara Jade. Kreia (very sort of).

1. Laura Roslin. You guys, I do not believe I need to explain further, suffice to say, I'm tactically ignoring certain aspects of 4.5 and concentrating on the amazing mix of powerful, compassionate, determined, terrifying, loving and over-50.

See also: Well, let's be honest, no one holds a candle to her, but Harriet Jones, Hermione Granger, Leia Organa, Sarah-Jane Smith and Eowyn of the Rohirrim are all kind of in the same mould. Though also...none of them are entirely. Because Laura Roslin is unique and beautiful snowflake!

And that was long enough I bet you wish you hadn't asked!


Top Five Star Wars EU Moments - for silverblade219.

5. Yoda challenging Dooku to convince him the dark side is better. I think I love it because I'm so convinced that Yoda is deadly serious the entire time. Like, he honestly is willing to consider that peace under the influence dark side is as viable and "good" as peace under the influence of the light side. And he will give all of Dooku's arguments his entire attention. The fact we know he won't be convinced doesn't really matter, against that level of earnestness and sincerity? And then Obi-Wan and Anakin fly in to save the day and I want to throttle them.

4. "But I can't be afraid. Fear leads to the dark side, doesn't it, master?" - Zayne Carrick. There are a lot of moments in this series I love and I almost picked the one where Carth tells Zayne he warned the cities instead because it also exemplifies much of what I love about the series. But I like this one because it's what sets the whole thing in motion really. How innocent and heroic Zayne is, but also the way the series deftly deals with philosophy - that unanswerable question which frames the entire series - how do you handle visions of the future? If you act out of fear, the opening act of this series, is proof that it leads to the dark side. If you don't act, the computer game series is proof, they might come true.

3. "I'm a killer too," - Rain. Jedi vs Sith. I still think it's the most believable and horrifying Sith genesis story ever. Because you understand why Rain totally looses it after everything she's been through and kills that guy. It's one of those horrible, pointless mix-ups and she's what, a 7 year old kid in the middle of it? And it's nearly an accident? But she's such a good person she understands exactly what she's done, and when an adult accepts her for it and tells her this is who she is now...she believes him.

2. Nyna Calixte IS Morrigan Corde. Unexpected. Amazing. Sick-to-your-stomach as the one person in the world looking out for Cade turns into the architect of this frakked-up universe. And also, how cool is it?!

1. The Ganner. My god that was beautiful. Everything about it, from Jacen's realisation that he can approach a violent pointless universe with love, to Ganner's realisation that he can just be. This wonderful ending for a serial playactor, who finally stops worrying that he's playacting and discovers, with enough convinction, there's no difference. Vergere telling Jacen that Ganner isn't giving his life for Jacen, he's giving Jacen's life to Jacen and would he throw away a dying man's last gift? And Ganner himself, this perfect moment that I believe utterly and realistically in the context of the story and that also, I completely understand how, in a thousand generations, it will be a myth and Ganner will be a god. Just...the perfect culmination to a myth about philosophy.


Top Five Unintentionally Hilarious Moments - for emmiere.

5. Bill Adama's sex fantasy with Leoben paint breakdown in Islanded in a Stream of Stars. I still can't decide if the similarities with that Leoben sex scene were intentional or not. I mean, I can't believe that they were, but equally, how could it not be? O_O

4. Pretty much anything to do with Karen Traviss glorifying the Mandalorians. But I think I'm gonna go with Etain's death. Because really, when faced with your beloved troops revolting and trying to murder not only you, but everyone associated with you including children, the sensible thing to do is go off on a self-righteous internal monologue about how you have to defend the guy who's trying to kill you from the person who's trying to defend you/himself. And then doing so, not with your weapon, but by THROWING YOURSELF IN FRONT OF A LIGHTSABER. Despite the fact chapters ago you were happily planning your future family life with your husband and son. Combined with the fact the whole thing was so clearly written to be...moving? Like, her last thoughts are of looking up at a T-visor, "so familiar, so loved!" Um. UM UM UM UM UM. *facepalm*

Also an honourable mention to Boba Fett's pet eel. Which in the actual kids books, he hated and cackled gleefully when he set it free and watched it get eaten by a sea creature. It's okay though, kind of like how she retconned every single questionable act Fett ever committed into "Secretly really, really noble!", by the age of 71, Boba recalls his ABJECT HORROR at the death of this eel. IT DIED, DIED "BEFORE IT HAD EVER TASTED FREEDOM"! Because, um, the Jedi killed his dad. And his dead eel was just like that. Yes. Or, you know, senile dementia is setting in.

3. Bill Adama: FOXES! FOXES! SHOOT ME SAUL, I'M GOING TO SAY CRUDE THINGS ABOUT YOUR WIFE! MY SON'S WIFE DIED SO I MADE IT ALL ABOUT ME, AND NOW IT'S YOUR TURN! FOOOOOOOXESSSSSSS!

Me: There is a perfectly good radioactive ocean on Earth. I wholeheartedly condone your immitation of these suicidal drowning foxes.

(Note: this would have been #1 but it's kind of almost...too easy. Plus while personally more hilarous/reprehensible, he's had far greater moments of professional insanity.)

2. Basically the entirety of Ecks vs Sever where I really, really don't think the show realises that poor Antonio Banderas isn't playing a furious, fiery, vengeful loose-canon 'cop' archetype, but a totally incompetant halfwit. But if I have to pick one moment, it will be that Ecks' GRAND MASTER PLAN to defeat his nemesis is to lure him into a confrontation in between two parked trains with lots of pipes on them, and then reveal he is standing on a landmine. His masterstroke is to jump off the landmine, presumably in an attempt to catch everyone in the explosion.

What actually happens is, the pipes come crashing down on Ecks like an idiot, and not only does he not catch his nemesis in his cunning trap, he does not manage to down a single one of the henchmen either. So he's just there. Crushed by pipes. While everyone runs away. *facepalm*

1. Bill Adama's Tighlon breakdown. As I said, not as personally ridiculous or indulgent as #3, but I will never ever get over the fact that either he got himself THAT drunk and drooling in 15 minutes, or he was busy getting that drunk and drooling while D'Anna was AIRLOCKING HOSTAGES. Srsly people. Comedy. Gold.

Honourable mention to Sine Qua Non: Remember how earlier we were having a fight about how it's not enough that you're loyal, I need you to be competant? And like, not knock up prisoners of war? HERE. HAVE THE REMNANTS OF HUMANITY! XD

I bet you totally did not expect me to mention Adama at ALL did you? /sarcams. I hope you appreciate my great restraint in not making this ONLY a list of him. /absolute sincerity.


Top Five Sixes - for kiki_miserychic.

5. Sonja! Because she is political and Sixy and is totally going to frak Lee Adama and it will be angsty because NOOO CYLONS!! but NOOOO you like me for MEEEE! And then Sonja will like...use this to her political advantage but Lee won't really hold it against her because politics is sexay. YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE, STOP FIGHTING IT.

4. Head Six! I feel bad she's so far down, but so many awesome Sixes! Actually I think she's kind of lower because while I love her, I miss her being a character with like...feelings and stuff. In S3 and S4 after both we and Baltar knew she definitely was not Caprica, she really changed and we never really saw stuff devastate her like Hera's "death" and Gina and stuff did? I miss that. She was so much more interesting when she was a character rather than an angel-device in his head?

3. Gina! OMG Tricia Helfer's acting. Gina still breaks my heart. It's one of the rare times I've thought a rape storyline was justified and I will love Tricia Helfer forever for fighting to keep her PTSD. I love how you can't hate her, it makes you an asshole. But the show never, ever pretends like she's fixed. I mean, Gina is not on the happy human/cylon OTP train. Gina hates you. She even hates Gaius, even though he's the only person in the world she trusts, he's still a "you". And it's heartbreaking because she was the first time Gaius was so utterly selfless and completely compassionate. And still he said it with nukes, and not enough awareness to realise she wasn't going to be fixed for him; it wasn't about him and their happily-ever-after. It was about "you". And killing you. Even though she loves you. And can't stand that.

2. Natalie! Dude. Natalie. I still hate that she died. I still love that if she was going to have the balls to choose death for everyone, she faced it first. I know it wasn't her choice, but still, somehow, the way she faced it; curious. With integrity. Plus, she unleashed a rebellion of centurions! (I move we make 'a rebellion of centurions' the official collective noun!)

1. Caprica! Like Laura Roslin I've babbled about her in my LJ enough that I probably don't need to anymore. And also like Laura it's her beautiful web of contradictions that own my heart. Namely her capacity for such boundless love and such boundless violence in the same breath. Her ability to denounce her nation without ever denouncing herself as a part of that nation. The way she is fascinated by and falls in love with everything she sees. The way her fingers get into everything, because until she touches it, it might not be real. The way she never, ever, ever stops trying to find things to love and things to love her back, despite having her heart broken more times than most of us could bear. Caprica. <3


Top Five Times I've Hated a Character I Love - for frolicndetour.

5. Laura Roslin's speech about "home" in Islanded in a Stream of I REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR EXISTENCE! To be fair, this isn't really hatred of Laura Roslin so much as the point at which I realised that this person on the screen wasn't Laura Roslin anymore, because this person? I hated. And man. That hurt. So it needs to be here, but it's number 5 because it's...firstly a crowning moment of fail and perhaps the impressive stuff should be further up, and also because I don't want this moment to "win" anything, even a list of hate.

4. In a similar vein, Chief killing Tory in Daybreak. I still think it's the single most failTACULAR moment in the entire series with regards to women and violence, and the "perfect" capstone to the WTF of Chief's "romantic" storylines. And I just...I wouldn't have been against an exploration of Chief's violent side or even an exploration of domestic violence and vengeance through him, but not in this gross, glorifying way. And that just makes me boil with rage at a character I liked/wanted to like for so long. Seriously, I spent every shot of him after he did that wanting to punch his teeth in so he had a mouth full of blood, and I am not usually a violent person.

3. John Crichton in Natural Election when he calls Aeryn on not having told him the truth at the end and tells her to come back when she has her story straight. WHICH MAKES NO SENSE. See, most people, I think, would have identified the moment he takes the lakka at the end of John Quixote and walks away from her as a moment to hate her (you know, at least people who weren't all, Yeah John! Show her who's boss! Not that I'm bitter...). But I always saw that episode as the moment he formulated his later-revealed-plan to hide how he feels about her from Scorpius because he knows he can't do it on his own. And that's frustrating and stupid but comforting in that it means he wasn't doing it because he actually BELIEVED Aeryn had done something unworthy of forgiveness, and that she somehow had to "make it up to him".

While in NE, I try and try to think about why he's telling D'argo that he's honestly considered that Aeryn's kid wasn't either his or the other him's which basically means he's been wondering if she was cheating on other-him which is, frankly, unworthy of him. Why D'argo is supporting this. Why John is so furious that Aeryn, being scared, tried to confide in her friend about something scary and life changing. Or indeed why, when Aeryn DOES tell him the truth, which she'd been TRYING to do since the start of the episode - so like, the first time we see her after John confronts her on the issue after her return (at the end of Promises), is her trying to tell him everything like he wanted, except circumstances and poisonous plants delay this - why his "get your story straight," thing makes any sense at all? Cus like, she just DID that?

You guys, I don't even know. I get "he was hurt" or whatever, but I think he was acting like a child and therefore it made me kind of hate him and also personally retcon that he was starting to realise he had to hide his feelings from Scorpy even then. :/ (I mean, whole other thing about how he later walks into that trap voluntarily, but, like Laura stealing the election, my heroes doing things completely against my own ethical codes, depending on TV context, etc., might provoke a range of thinky emotions in me from awe to horror to heartbreak, but this is not the same as hate?)

2. Han Solo in the aftermath of Chewie's death. Now we're into the ones where I hate the character but it's a sign of the...rather amazing acting/writing/storytelling. Chewie dies, and Han's first words to his son are a snarl, "You left him!" He's a sixteen year old kid who wants nothing more than to breach the gap between them and tries and tries and his dad sinks into drunkenness and runs away. But there's also something desperately sad about Han's response to Leia's entreaties that he fix this. "He doesn't need me, he's got the Force." Because there's just Han, you know. On his own, in the middle of this family of magicians. I hate him for it. But, you know, I think I'm supposed to. After Anakin gives him a gift that Chewie made for him, and all Han can do is lie and tell Anakin it's going to be all right, and Anakin is like, "What? The war, Chewie being dead, or you leaving and not telling us where you're going to go?" And there's no answer.

1. Gaius Baltar telling Laura she ought to pray with him, because really, the destruction of their species was divinely inspired. Let's just forget the fact that the finale kind of proves him right and concentrate on the amazing, amazing acting on the part of both of them. The pure horror of it. I'm amazed, you guys. It was fantastic. And wow did I hate Gaius right then.

And that's it folks! Sorry it's so long. Y'all know I'm wordy by now. Discussion, thoughts, more top fives are all welcome!