THIS IS WHY YOU SHOULD WATCH FRINGE!

[beccatoria]

Found via a rec from kiki_miserychic on twitter.

I wasn't lying when I said one of the awesome things about Fringe was how the main action hero is a girl. Because seriously, this isn't a selective slice of the show. I mean, she gets to do stuff other than fuck up people's shit, sure, cus she's the main character. She gets to do things like have awesome and confusing and pissed-off conversations with morally ambiguous middle-aged women with robot arms and Leonard Nimoy about how she may or may not be teh speshulz and destined to like, save the world or something. BUT ALSO SHE DOES STUFF LIKE THIS.

(For the spoilerphobic, to be honest, this isn't a narrative vid and most of the spoilers are so out of context you wouldn't understand them anyway. Though the framing device, such as it is, might spoil you for one of the major start-of-S2 plotlines. But like...WATCH IT ANYWAY. It's not like you'll really remember or anything. YOU WILL JUST REMEMBER THE ASS-KICKING.)

Comments

[ivanolix.livejournal.com]

*loves* *loves again* Olivia is my favorite TV girlfriend currently on air...there can never be enough love for her and her badassery.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Agreed! I love how gender neutral her badassery is too. Not like Buffy or River or hell, even Starbuck in some ways (not so much because of the portrayal but because of the realworld mediastorm that surrounded her genderswitching). Not to denigrate any of those characters because they're all cool and awesome and stuff, but with the Buffy archetype especially there's a lot of focus on the tension between the "girl" part and the "kickass" part, whereas Olivia just IS. And like, I think people overlook her as an amazing kickass TV girlfriend because the show itself doesn't make a big deal out of it, they just write her as the action hero? Which is kind of awesome.

[ivanolix.livejournal.com]

YES! I did a picspam for her recently, and it's amazing how very unsexualized she is (without being desexualized). The camera angles, costuming, makeup, writing, everything. It astonishes me how few people talk about her.

[chaila.livejournal.com]

This is very effective recruitment. I haz season 1! I just keep...not watching it. I thought I was going to put it off for Babylon 5 and Susan Ivanova (sp?), but I keep not making it through the pilot of that show. So Fringe it is! Sometime! Soon. Ish. Because I have this weird thing with TV where I HAVE to start at the beginning, and then I keep putting it off and they keep making more show and it gets to be problematic.

[pellucid.livejournal.com]

I keep not making it through the pilot of that show

Uh, yeah. It's really not a bad idea to watch season 1 of B5 in the background while you're doing something else. Or while you're drinking. I swear the awfulness is worth it in the end, but season 1 is a VERY hard sell, I know.

[chaila.livejournal.com]

Heh, I've tried that a few times, then I get about halfway through the first episode and realize I have no idea who anyone is, where they actually are, what their relationships are to each other, or what's going on because it just seems to slide through my head. I know the answer is to push through and figure it out later, which I will do eventually because I totally believe you. Someday!

[thuviaptarth.livejournal.com]

For what it's worth, I keep telling people Fringe is my methadone for TSCC. It's not as ambitious or as moving, but it's an action science fiction show with a kickass, reserved female protagonist who has a strong if unconventionally demonstrated protective streak. Olivia is more capable of demonstrating tenderness than Sarah, but she's had less to deal with (so far). There's even some examination of parenthood and caretaking, although this doesn't tend to be examined via Olivia or be as central to the show as it is to TSCC.

Also, I am in love with Anna Torv's voice.

Also also, the cinematography is really pretty.

I think the show really picks up and finds its voice around halfway through season one. The plots are kind of decent pulp adventure at best, but I'm not watching for the plot. Olivia shoots people! Things blow up! The science fictional plot twist at the end of season one is really cool! That is what I am watching for.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I can see that comparison, actually. And Anna Torv does have a pretty fantastic voice.

It's interesting that you glom onto parenthood and caretaking as a central theme translated from TSCC whereas for me it was the hope of a complex, non-binary discussion on technology and our relationship to it, though again, that issue, while obviously important to the larger plot arcs is not as explicitly discussed as it was on TSCC (or BSG).

I would say, though, on the parenthood and caretaking front, that I really enjoy Olivia's relationship with her sister and niece, even though there's not much of it (apparently they're having trouble getting the actress who plays her sister consistently due to other filming commitments). I love unconventional family setups (another transference from both TSCC and BSG), and I also enjoy how Olivia falls into the pattern of, basically, the Working Man of the House, except, you know, not at all. a

[thuviaptarth.livejournal.com]

I also see technology as key to SCC; I didn't see it as carrying over to Fringe, but yeah, you're right, it does. I have just been so disappointed that they seem to have dropped the critique of multinationalism from S1 that I've blocked most of it out.

One of the things I love about SCC is that the technology and parent issues intertwine, that so much of the plot is about education, expectation, and indoctrination, for robots as much as humans.

I really loved the bit in 208 where Olivia's niece has clearly internalized the "Don't protest Daddy's absence when he's working" dictum, only applied to Olivia.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Yes, you are right that the parent/child relationship in TSCC were really, really good. I found myself really wishing they'd done more with Weaver and John Henry because the parent/child=robot/robot thing was actually a lot different to the usual parent/child=human/robot parallels that are drawn in scifi.

Can you elaborate more on the critique of multinationalism? I'll confess that's not something I picked up on, but I'd be interested to hear more.

I really loved the bit in 208 where Olivia's niece has clearly internalized the "Don't protest Daddy's absence when he's working" dictum, only applied to Olivia.

Absolutely!

Which is sort of a pattern with her. Like...even when they did the blatantly sexualised thing of having her kiss the stripper, which was kind of an obvious grab for "OMGEDGY!" Olivia was basically being the guy. I mean, she LITERALLY was the guy, but also, she was in the masculine role in that scenario. Which on the one hand, I don't want to hand out props to a show that only ever sexualises its heroine by going "omggurlzkissing!" and then denying her femininity at all other times, except...I kind of don't think that Fringe does that with her? Like...it was a bit borderline in that instance, but it's so good at letting her be a woman without a lot of the sexist crap that when they DO have her picking up strippers and her niece internalising male parent stereotypes about her, it feels intriguing and like the show is playing with gender rather than cheap? Maybe? I hope?

HMM.

[thuviaptarth.livejournal.com]

In the first season, when they were building up Massive Dynamic as the villain, there was a lot of focus on Massive Dynamic's power and wealth and its involvement in many of the cases being investigated. In one episode, I forget which, I am pretty sure someone explicitly said Massive Dynamic was more powerful and/or richer than some nations. The dangerous science, although often descended from individual mad scientist Walter Bishop's initial research, developed into something dangerous with corporate backing. Even when Massive Dynamic offered help, there was a price tag on it -- the possibility of developing trade relations (i.e., exploiting) Indian tribes in the Amazon, or bringing down the stock price of a rival corporation.

In Season Two, with the general efforts to rehabilitate William Bell's image, there's been much less focus on this and many more instances of individual scientists producing monsters in their basement labs. That's a narrative I'm a lot less interested in.

I think the girlkissing was exploitative, but I liked it anyway. I'm not sure how thoughtful the show is about gender -- my previous experience with J.J. Abrams is Star Trek and Alias. And in Alias he had a lot of powerful female characters -- who mostly worked against each other, or were isolated from each other in mostly male networks, and the subplots always enforced a deeply conservative idea of family and loyalty. So I tend to think of Abrams as someone who shares some of my character kinks, but can't be relied upon to sustain gender subversion on multiple narrative levels. But that means when he gives me something extra, I am pleased and surprised.

[chaila.livejournal.com]

kickass, reserved female protagonist who has a strong if unconventionally demonstrated protective streak.

Oh Sarah. I gathered the similarities a little bit from beccatoria's talking about it, but it's good (and effective!) to hear the specifics. An analgesic for the pain of TSCC cancellation sounds pretty good! Things blowing up tend not to hold my attention on their own, but if it's a non-sexualized kickass girl doing the blowing up, I think I can be convinced. And it sounds like there's enough TSCC-esque thinky plottiness to be going on with. At least, the way you guys are discussing the similarities between the shows makes it extra appealing--having something to compare and contrast to TSCC, and thus to keep it in the mix, is probably enough to earn my affection. I have definitely been convinced to stick in season 1 and see what happens!

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

YAYZ! Effective recruitment! :D Ivanova is also fairly awesome, but yeah, the pilot is...not the greatest. A lot of people say season 1 isn't the greatest but, um, I actually quite like it. That said, I kind of...can't explain why. Cus it's not really that great as compared to the next three seasons or anything and it's kind of cheesy (though honestly I suspect that the show itself didn't become less cheesy it just became better at pulling it off). But, um, the point is, yeah. I'm weird, the first season has good moments and is refreshing for the level of "realness" that it brings to a space setting but if that's all they ever made it would have sunk down in SciFi history with Space Precinct. (I liked Space Precinct... *facepalm*)

(Sidenote: Possibly I like S1 so much because I quite like Sinclair. Kev's response to this revelation was, "Yeah... I mean, if there's smuggled alien technology on board, Sinclair will go down to the lower decks and punch someone. Sheridan would just wander off and ask Delenn and then cry a bit..." Which is slightly unfair. He'd wander off, go ask Delenn and then get all flustered about rules. But he'd be crying on the inside. Probably. Mantears.)

Um, we were talking about Fringe, weren't we? Right! Yeah, Fringe is cool. I'd recommend watching from the beginning, yes - (and I'm like that with TV mostly too) - though be warned, it's pretty damn standaloney and there are probably a bunch of episodes you can miss if you want; I could probably work out which ones if you needed me too.

[pellucid.livejournal.com]

if there's smuggled alien technology on board, Sinclair will go down to the lower decks and punch someone. Sheridan would just wander off and ask Delenn and then cry a bit..." Which is slightly unfair. He'd wander off, go ask Delenn and then get all flustered about rules. But he'd be crying on the inside. Probably. Mantears.

*giggles*

Nevertheless, I CANNOT get over the eyebrows!!! Or the eye-bleedingly bad acting. I mean, this is a guy who makes Bruce Boxleitner a notable improvement!

Mostly, I'll take just about any of the other characters over either Sinclair or Sheridan. Except maybe Stephen. Poor Stephen. I tried to like him, but he has NO personality at all and a tendency to have the worst episodes focused on him. Well, and all those annoying people who appeared in season 5--Lochley and the telepath dude and such.

But since Ivanova, G'Kar, Londo, and Delenn are some of the best characters ever, I forgive the others! At least somewhat.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Yeeeeeah. I think for me the problem was that I thought a character like Sheridan NEEDED a good actor to not be obnoxious, whereas Sinclair was simple enough in concept that it didn't really matter, so it's not that I think he's a better actor, but more...I could handle the badness from him.

Well, that and the fact I got through most of S1 happily pretending it was a 1940s noir movie and that was why everyone spoke at a million miles per hour in perfectly sardonic prose that no one would ever actually say outloud in real life. Um, at least any scenes that involved either Sinclair or Garibaldi...

Mostly, I'll take just about any of the other characters over either Sinclair or Sheridan. Except maybe Stephen. Poor Stephen. I tried to like him, but he has NO personality at all and a tendency to have the worst episodes focused on him. Well, and all those annoying people who appeared in season 5--Lochley and the telepath dude and such.

Yeah, I'm with you there. When me, Kev and Addy were all watching it through from start to finish a few years ago, we used to sing along during the credits, giving all the characters scores out of five depending on how much we liked them at the time. (Londo and G'Kar always got either FIVE or A MILLIONTY!, obvs) and poor Stephen never scored very well. I think I usually gave him 2, and that was mostly just because he wasn't Garibaldi.

OH GOD BYRON THOUGH. *gouges out eyes* I will never, ever, ever, ever, EVER forgive them for that bizarre arty sex scene they did with Lyta and all the other telepaths watching. *cries*

I was about to defend Lochley's honour because we sort of liked her, but then I remembered that had you not just typed it, I wouldn't actually have remembered her name as we all insisted on referring to her as "Captain Rack" and then laughing at her. So possibly the reasons we liked her are not really very defense-worthy. We did like her though. She usually got like...a four on the shouting-score-card-opening-credits game.

But since Ivanova, G'Kar, Londo, and Delenn are some of the best characters ever, I forgive the others!

True! Well, at least the first three on that list. I...never loved Delenn quite as much as the rest of fandom seems to *ducks thrown fruit* I mean, I like her well enough, and I love the idea of her. But somehow... I dunno. Maybe it's the actor vs character thing again. Because I don't think the actress playing Ivanova was stellar either (though she wasn't bad, unlike Bruce Boxleitner), but that didn't hamper the strength with which she pulled off the character nearly as much? Maybe?

[chaila.livejournal.com]

It's the cheeeeeese! The cheese seems to just slip through my mind like it's a sieve, and I just can't figure out what the frak is supposed to be going on or why I'm supposed to care. Like Farscape made me forget about makeup and muppets, or I'd never have made it very far. With B5, I have not yet gotten past the cheesiness of the ears and hair and stuff to listen to what's coming out of anybody's mouth. /sci-fi prejudice Though I wholeheartedly believe you all that it's a good show! :)

Also, red-headed cyborgs for the win. Clearly.

[pellucid.livejournal.com]

Hmm. Fringe has tended to strike me as sort of an X-Files wannabe, which sort of made it not appeal. But I may have to give it a`shot after this!

ETA: That makes it sound like I didn't like XF, doesn't it? My Fringe skepticism has had more to do with worrying that it seemed like a pale imitation of XF, heavy on the things XF ended up doing really badly (conspiracy, omg!) and light on the things XF did fabulously (characters and chemistry--though I think my Fringe skepticism on this front is entirely Joshua Jackson, who does nothing for me). But the woman in the vid looks pretty awesome. Not that I have time to pick up a new show right now. But I shall have to add it to the list, anyway.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Well, my initial response to it was exactly the same and actually one of my chief complaints against it is exactly the same which is I wish they'd do less obviously wannabe x-files standalones and commit more to their world and their metaplot.

It trundles along for the first two-thirds of the season not really establishing itself much beyond "Competant X-Files Wannabe" and then toward the end of the first season we get some fairly enormous revelations about both the woman in the vid and the nature of the Fringe Universe that really establish its premise as Quite Different From The X-Files and, to be honest, while I think a lot about this show when it's off doing Monster of the Week stuff is...mediocre, that plot twist impressed me quite a bit.

So basically now I wish they'd actually commit more time to the part of the show that's unique and different to the obvious copycat accusations and dial back the standalones. It's quite good at at least inserting a few metaplot scenes into the standalones, but still. I shouldn't complain because if they did that they'd probably use viewers and it'd get canceled but meh.

As to chemistry, I have to be honest, I'm hoping, without much realistic hope, that they don't try to hook up Olivia and Peter (Joshua Jackson). I think they have more chemistry with just about everyone ELSE on that show except each other. Fortunately so far, that hasn't been pushed too heavily (though obviously YouTube is full of shipper vids). Olivia actually spends most of the first half of the first season struggling to resolve issues with a previous relationship.

Also hilarious is the fact that try as the pilot might to make Peter look Relevant and the Angsty Bad Boy Male Lead (with annoyingly obnoxious results, but he gets better, I promise), he is totally and hilariously irrelevant to the ongoing plot. There's a revelation about him at the end of S1 too, but...without going into spoilers, he's still a McGuffin rather than someone with agency or an active role in the plot. It's kind of amusing (to me at least). Though I do fear what will happen when they try to start forcing him into relevance. I fear I'll get annoyed with him again.

The other main character which sets it apart a big from TXF is Walter - Peter's father - the old guy who plays Denethor in Lord of the Rings. Like Olivia he's personally bound up in this conspiracy but also, having been institutionalised for nearly twenty years, he has memory lapses and isn't quite sane anymore which adds both weird humour and surprising poignance to his role. He's working with the good guys now but there are surprisingly frequent reminders that his work is not benign and we have no idea what he has wrought in the past.

So...yeah. It is an XF ripoff, certainly at the beginning. But it's also obviously got enough thought behind it that it's MORE than just that, if they're given the space and take the opportunity to go there?

Anyway, let me know if you get around to watching it. I get the feeling I'd talk about this show a lot more if I had the time and an audience. :)

[emmiere.livejournal.com]

*netflixes*

Well, that was slightly awesome. :D

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

EEE! Yes to netflix, yes! :D

[coffeejunkii.livejournal.com]

olivia ♥♥♥. i've been waiting for an olivia vid since forever and here is a great one! yay!

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Yay! Glad to help you find one! :D

[beerbad.livejournal.com]

Anna was adorable at Comic-Con and I want to watch the show for her, but then... there is J.J. Having been burned by every single one of his other shows, I'm hesitant to get into another J.J. show that will end up fizzling into terribleness eventually. *ponders...*

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Aaah, see, here I am lucky (or perhaps unlucky). All I know of JJ Abrams previous works is the first two seasons of Alias which were awesome (IRINA DEREVKO), and the new Star Trek movie. So while I know and believe others who say that he inevitably screws up the ends of his shows, I haven't yet had the emotional devastation that goes hand in hand with that.

There are two other executive producers credited in the titles though, so perhaps they will mitigate the Abrams Factor? *ponders...*