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beccatoriaSO. Four word review: meh, needed more Olivia.
This is super short for me. Like, almost a sane length for a review. I should be ambivalent enough not to be overly interested in dissecting my ambivalence more often!
Which, okay, it was vaguely reassuring that the whole thing was at least about her and her mindset and shit but it needed more actual Olivia. The animation was gimmicky and while I didn't hate it it didn't really add anything either. William Bell seems to be dead again (though I'm not assuming it's the case) and therefore leaves me wondering why they brought him back in the first place? Cus like, he didn't say anything interesting to us about anything like, say, THE DAMN MACHINE or whatever. So it seems he was brought back for...no massive narrative value. Which is odd.
As to the shape of the story itself, I did like that what at first looked to be a story about Olivia getting rescued ended up, ultimately, being Olivia having to rescue herself once again. Though honestly it was hella cheesy in places around then. I guess what I mean is, the disconnect of Olivia and the things she is afraid of - the lack of control she never allows to take hold of her the way it was imposed on her as a child - there are things to be said for having all that locked away in her subconscious where she does not normally have to deal with it. I suppose it's as good a reason as any for her fearlessness in reality - she took everything that could hurt or scare her and boxed it up, and then William Bell forced her to live in that box. Guy's a giant dick. I didn't buy death as redemption last time he croaked and it turned out I was right. I don't buy it this time either. Partly I just don't buy he isn't coming back somehow, but even if he isn't, I can be grateful to him for not being a bigger dick by sticking around without forgetting he caused alllll the problems (including the part where Olivia's subconscious is a nuked wasteland) in the first place.
So, where was I? Right, it wasn't so much the idea but the rather pat execution of the ending that felt trite and less complicated than it should have been. Though, even with the ending, I'm not expecting this to be a herald of a "fixed" Olivia, so we'll see.
Peter is the other person I wanna discuss here. I know I'm a raging antishipper, but I was okay with him guessing where Olivia was and what she would do. I think the thing about Peter - the picture of his character I'm building up - is that I think there's a split between the charming conman who is brilliant at reading the surface and predicting how someone will react, and the child who was stolen and never managed to connect emotionally to anyone again, not properly.
And I think that at least some of Peter's inability to recognise it wasn't Olivia in the start of the season was because of that emotional disconnection and at least some of his ability to recognise the false Olivia in the dream was because of his skills in predicting behaviour in set conditions. And I don't take issue with either because they could point to a very cohesive and complex individual with specific strengths and weaknesses in varying situations, but I can't help but feel that was supposed to be the punch-the-air moment that reassured us that Peter did better this time.
I can't think why else it would be there. But for me it just...doesn't work. Because once again, the show hasn't shown us anything about Peter. What's changed? The same question I asked when Olivia decided to give things another shot. What changed? Something might have, but we didn't see it. Why can he tell now, when he couldn't before? Bluntly, it feels unearned. And I still want Peter to express, just once, something he likes that is unique to Our Olivia. But whatever, I've had this rant.
One thing that really, really disappointed me was the COMPLETE lack of discussion about the shape-shifter killings. Like I'm actually wondering if she even remembers it? Because, just after waking up no, they wouldn't talk about it, but she invites Peter in at the very end like there's no big deal and they don't even talk about it. I mean even if she wasn't pissed (which would piss me off, but I recognise it's a [stupid] direction they could go in), surely Peter would be like, "So, um, that giant secret I told you? Had a reaction yet?" Hell, it could even be a function of her weird new zen attitude. But still, A LINE PLEASE.
Partly I think they may be saving that up for the next episode judging from the promo, but idk, it felt odd to have it totally dropped. They went to such pains to make Peter look like a creepy psycho killer in that episode, and then they have him admit to it and...we get nothing? Honestly, I'm gonna be pissed if that's it.
And how 'bout that ending? I'm not sure if I'm more shocked that Olivia ATE SOMETHING ON SCREEN for the...first time ever, I think? Or that she was like, "Yeah, totally, no idea who he is but that dude's gonna kill me," like she was asking if anyone wanted to catch a movie. The "move forwards" line was...cheeeeesy, like one of those lines you want to burn out of a script and force someone to rewrite with less weird words, but I am vaguely interested in this new attitude she seems to have.
Like I said earlier, I do not buy that mind trip experience as a permanent transcendental healing moment, but I do buy that it was a powerful experience that it causing at least a temporary shift in perception. I mean, for starters, can she see the future now? Secondly, I...have no idea why she's so happy and chill about everything, but it's...kind of awesome that she's not freaking out about it? Like that she's just, "Hmmm, okay that's interesting."
Basically I'm genuinely unsure how I feel about the way Olivia was acting in that last scene and it will depend on the next episode, but even with my current feelings of "meh" about this ep, and some of the directions the show is going in, I don't think she's having a wholesale personality transplant any time soon and I think this could be...interesting. I mean, it positions Olivia in a position of knowledge, power and wisdom, potentially. So I think that's interesting. We'll see.
Final thoughts: OH BROYLES YOU ARE ADORABLE. OH ASTRID, IF EVER I AM FORCED TO TRIP FOR SCIENCE, PLEASE LOOK AFTER ME.
This is super short for me. Like, almost a sane length for a review. I should be ambivalent enough not to be overly interested in dissecting my ambivalence more often!
Which, okay, it was vaguely reassuring that the whole thing was at least about her and her mindset and shit but it needed more actual Olivia. The animation was gimmicky and while I didn't hate it it didn't really add anything either. William Bell seems to be dead again (though I'm not assuming it's the case) and therefore leaves me wondering why they brought him back in the first place? Cus like, he didn't say anything interesting to us about anything like, say, THE DAMN MACHINE or whatever. So it seems he was brought back for...no massive narrative value. Which is odd.
As to the shape of the story itself, I did like that what at first looked to be a story about Olivia getting rescued ended up, ultimately, being Olivia having to rescue herself once again. Though honestly it was hella cheesy in places around then. I guess what I mean is, the disconnect of Olivia and the things she is afraid of - the lack of control she never allows to take hold of her the way it was imposed on her as a child - there are things to be said for having all that locked away in her subconscious where she does not normally have to deal with it. I suppose it's as good a reason as any for her fearlessness in reality - she took everything that could hurt or scare her and boxed it up, and then William Bell forced her to live in that box. Guy's a giant dick. I didn't buy death as redemption last time he croaked and it turned out I was right. I don't buy it this time either. Partly I just don't buy he isn't coming back somehow, but even if he isn't, I can be grateful to him for not being a bigger dick by sticking around without forgetting he caused alllll the problems (including the part where Olivia's subconscious is a nuked wasteland) in the first place.
So, where was I? Right, it wasn't so much the idea but the rather pat execution of the ending that felt trite and less complicated than it should have been. Though, even with the ending, I'm not expecting this to be a herald of a "fixed" Olivia, so we'll see.
Peter is the other person I wanna discuss here. I know I'm a raging antishipper, but I was okay with him guessing where Olivia was and what she would do. I think the thing about Peter - the picture of his character I'm building up - is that I think there's a split between the charming conman who is brilliant at reading the surface and predicting how someone will react, and the child who was stolen and never managed to connect emotionally to anyone again, not properly.
And I think that at least some of Peter's inability to recognise it wasn't Olivia in the start of the season was because of that emotional disconnection and at least some of his ability to recognise the false Olivia in the dream was because of his skills in predicting behaviour in set conditions. And I don't take issue with either because they could point to a very cohesive and complex individual with specific strengths and weaknesses in varying situations, but I can't help but feel that was supposed to be the punch-the-air moment that reassured us that Peter did better this time.
I can't think why else it would be there. But for me it just...doesn't work. Because once again, the show hasn't shown us anything about Peter. What's changed? The same question I asked when Olivia decided to give things another shot. What changed? Something might have, but we didn't see it. Why can he tell now, when he couldn't before? Bluntly, it feels unearned. And I still want Peter to express, just once, something he likes that is unique to Our Olivia. But whatever, I've had this rant.
One thing that really, really disappointed me was the COMPLETE lack of discussion about the shape-shifter killings. Like I'm actually wondering if she even remembers it? Because, just after waking up no, they wouldn't talk about it, but she invites Peter in at the very end like there's no big deal and they don't even talk about it. I mean even if she wasn't pissed (which would piss me off, but I recognise it's a [stupid] direction they could go in), surely Peter would be like, "So, um, that giant secret I told you? Had a reaction yet?" Hell, it could even be a function of her weird new zen attitude. But still, A LINE PLEASE.
Partly I think they may be saving that up for the next episode judging from the promo, but idk, it felt odd to have it totally dropped. They went to such pains to make Peter look like a creepy psycho killer in that episode, and then they have him admit to it and...we get nothing? Honestly, I'm gonna be pissed if that's it.
And how 'bout that ending? I'm not sure if I'm more shocked that Olivia ATE SOMETHING ON SCREEN for the...first time ever, I think? Or that she was like, "Yeah, totally, no idea who he is but that dude's gonna kill me," like she was asking if anyone wanted to catch a movie. The "move forwards" line was...cheeeeesy, like one of those lines you want to burn out of a script and force someone to rewrite with less weird words, but I am vaguely interested in this new attitude she seems to have.
Like I said earlier, I do not buy that mind trip experience as a permanent transcendental healing moment, but I do buy that it was a powerful experience that it causing at least a temporary shift in perception. I mean, for starters, can she see the future now? Secondly, I...have no idea why she's so happy and chill about everything, but it's...kind of awesome that she's not freaking out about it? Like that she's just, "Hmmm, okay that's interesting."
Basically I'm genuinely unsure how I feel about the way Olivia was acting in that last scene and it will depend on the next episode, but even with my current feelings of "meh" about this ep, and some of the directions the show is going in, I don't think she's having a wholesale personality transplant any time soon and I think this could be...interesting. I mean, it positions Olivia in a position of knowledge, power and wisdom, potentially. So I think that's interesting. We'll see.
Final thoughts: OH BROYLES YOU ARE ADORABLE. OH ASTRID, IF EVER I AM FORCED TO TRIP FOR SCIENCE, PLEASE LOOK AFTER ME.
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Date: 2011-04-16 05:50 pm (UTC)I giggled when Walter called Astrid 'Astro' and she called him 'Wally'. Astrid is awesome. And she was so kind and caring. I really miss her in alt!verse when she is so blank.
Philip made me giggle. His eyes! He was like a little boy. I know he was tripping but I didn't get what he was saying about Death. I think it may be important?
Cus like, he didn't say anything interesting to us about anything
Well, he did reassure Walter that he can handle the future without him. That's important. Walter needs to learn that fine balance between confidence and humility. He's erred too far on either side in the past. He needs to grow up and not need Qui-Gon so Anakin can fulfill his destiny. I mean . . . well, you know what I mean. ;-)
But for me it just...doesn't work
I know I railed at Peter for not recognizing Alt!Olivia as not real!verse!Olivia. And I see that the show is trying to correct that. E for effort. But I didn't get it. What was off about dream!Olivia? I didn't see it. Yeah, I realized she would be Olive. It was a her childhood house and I love kids and I love Olive. But I didn't expect Peter to get that. I wish I could have seen what was wrong with dream!Olivia and then buy that Peter knew her that well, but something was . . . missing. What?
I don't remember the ep (was it in an ep?) where Olivia told him about the red door. So a lot of it was telling to me. Telling me this story of how close Peter and Olivia are. I guess they are? But when I see them together, hear them, talk I don't feel this closeness. Not even as friends. I sensed the closeness with child!Peter and child!Olivia. And even with LSD-ed Philip and Astrid in this ep. Something is missing for me and this pairing. Sigh. I guess it always will be.
the COMPLETE lack of discussion about the shape-shifter killings
Dude, it's like Anakin. Ignored until it will do the most damage. Maybe the moment he finds out he's a father, he'll be elbow-deep in shape-shifter blood? Some writers like to reveal things like that. I'm still pissed about Anakin. I fully believe if Padme had talked to him at all or told the Jedi council what he'd done, things would have been very different. Sigh. I don't believe the Fringe writers have forgotten that Peter has been mechanized, though.
don't think she's having a wholesale personality transplant any time soon
Hee! I don't think so? I mean we already have a whole other Olivia in alt!world, so I hope this one keeps her personality. Zen is good. But it was weird. The show is weird with her. They create her--real!verse Olivia--but then they take her away. She get injected with alt!memories, or taken over by Bell, now zenned out. Why can't they just let her be the real!verse Olivia I took 40 episodes to get to know? I don't understand that sometimes.
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Date: 2011-04-16 08:53 pm (UTC)I'm pretty sure the stuff about death was a reference to AltBroyles' death which I think really affected him?
I think that Peter guessed because he saw Young Olivia looking at him and I think he solved it like a puzzle? Like, I think he realised it was too easy given he knew Olivia would be in hiding and also given it was all of Olivia's fears he probably guessed that she'd test him? So I think that was an example of puzzle solving rather than souls? Which is why I hated that line - sooooo cheesy and over obvious. It would have been something I wouldn't have liked anyway, but much more in keeping with the style of the show if he'd just realised and not made a thing of it.
We didn't actually see the stuff Peter was talking about - those conversations must have happened offscreen and I agree that makes it tell not show. Again so much is missing because we never see much of Peter or Peter-and-Olivia. Bah, I don't like the pairing either.
Your comparison of Peter and Anakin continues to entertain me with its aptness. I agree on all counts. I mean even if the show didn't want to have Olivia horrified by his actions (and that would piss me off, but EVEN THEN) she should at LEAST be seriously horrified at the psychological implications of him running off and going vigilante killer on everyone. He needs some fucking help like Anakin did. Bah.
I'm not actually worried about a personality transplant because I was worried about that at the start and she was still "Our Olivia" even when she was brainwashed to think she was theirs. At the end, she felt more like Olivia when Olivia was with Rachel and Ella than she felt like Fauxlivia. So I'm fine with it as long as she doesn't start acting like someone else and I don't think she will. I do wanna know what's up with her though. I'm hoping it'll herald a new willingness to act and step up and use her power (either supernatural or just narrative agency) to really do some epic shit in the finale. We'll see. I may just be perennially optimistic, but I hope they'll play it like self-realisation to unlock the next level of her personal...power and existence. Like Neo at the end of the Matrix. I know that "self-actualisation" is apparently the theme of the series, so I want to see what that looks like for Olivia and whether I like it on her.
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Date: 2011-04-16 11:55 pm (UTC)Yeah? I had no idea his alt's death affected him like that. I thought it had to do with his wife. I know one of the Broyles' wives is dead? I can't remember which one, though.
but much more in keeping with the style of the show if he'd just realised and not made a thing of it.
Really? Sometimes the show is so subtle I don't even get it. Thanks for explaining that to me!
We didn't actually see the stuff Peter was talking about - those conversations must have happened offscreen
This really pisses me off. It's one thing if I fall asleep in class. Okay. I slept a lot through Fringe 101. But I've made it to Fringe Intermediate! And this is important character stuff! I think the show has seduced itself with its own pseudo-science and alt!verse. It sometimes exposits more in favorite of that instead of the character beats. Not always, but it seems that way with me for Peter/Olivia.
Your comparison of Peter and Anakin continues to entertain me with its aptness.
It's clear to me that Bell was Qui-Gon, Walter is Obi-Wan and Walternate is Darth Vader. "Peter I am your father." It's all so clear to me. But like Act 3 of that series, the shit is going to hit the fan and soon.
He needs some fucking help like Anakin did
You are preaching to the choir. Thank goodness for other fans. Olivia has gotta react better than Padme in this. She must.
So I'm fine with it as long as she doesn't start acting like someone else and I don't think she will.
You're right. Real!verse Olivia is still in there and will make people love and care about her again the way Henry did. I still remember him waiting, like a getaway car, outside of her mother's. He barely knew her but that's Olivia.
Like Neo at the end of the Matrix.
Ooh, that would be rather mind-blowing! She's got a lot of untapped power in there. And now she's not as afraid so maybe can use it at will. I also want her to interact with her alt self. On the same side those two would be unstoppable. :-)
NOT ENTIRELY RELEVANT
Date: 2011-04-16 06:15 pm (UTC)Re: NOT ENTIRELY RELEVANT
Date: 2011-04-16 08:56 pm (UTC)ENTIRELY ENTIRELY APPROPRIATE.
Yeah I don't like it either, but it's basically the same as it was last episode they were both um, conscious, so it's tragically not unexpected. Whatever, it was lame but fairly brief. Mostly I hated it because it was such a fucking CHEESY AWFUL LINE. So damn transparently calling back to the thing he fucked up last time with no damn discussion of what's different this time.
BUT WHATEVER. Either it will suck all the joy out of the show for me or it won't. I think I need to wait and see how they resolve the season before I know. MUCH REWATCHING OF YOU VIDMACRO WILL BE NECESSARY.
Re: NOT ENTIRELY RELEVANT
Date: 2011-04-16 11:32 pm (UTC)Re: NOT ENTIRELY RELEVANT
Date: 2011-04-16 11:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-04-16 11:37 pm (UTC)Mostly though, I adored this episode purely for the Broyles and Astrid subplot, which was glorious. They got character-based stuff to do, hurrah!
no subject
Date: 2011-04-18 09:13 am (UTC)I think for me it was counterbalanced by, yeah, getting Olivia back and by the fact that ultimately it wasn't other people who did the difficult last step of rescuing her completely - at the very end, it was Olivia herself who did that.
But...oh show. Why are you so...like this! *flustered*