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beccatoriaSo, for reasons that are complicated and boring and not entirely unrelated to a reflexive pushback against yet another attempt to get me to watch A:TLA (which I DO want to watch one day, but the last time he pushed it, I went and watched the entirety of Gargoyles instead, so basically his insistence and my YOU'RE NOT MY DAD! childishness is leading to some rather interesting education in 90s animated telly), I finally watched Revolutionary Girl Utena.
Which people have basically been telling me to watch since I discovered I adored Martian Successor: Nadesico (another 90s anime) but was sort of hovering somewhere towards the lower end of my "to do" list of media because I have a complicated relationship with anime. I want to love it. I feel like I should love it. It's an endless supply of amazing, complicated fantasy/sci fi stories, without the same kind of budget limitations because they're animated, that tell complete season-long stories, so I don't have to cry when it inevitably jumps the shark, and the fact it's animated doesn't bug me at all.
That said, I find a lot of the tropes and stock characters really distracting and sometimes straight-up gross. Some of that I overcome through immersion in the series, particularly if it plays its surreal hyperreality sections well in the context of the narrative (Nadesico with its crew-of-misfits humour, Utena with its straight up magic realism). It's always tricky calling out things you find offensive (or even empowering) across cultural lines, not cus other cultures should get a pass at treating people badly, but because you lack context. While trying to work out some of my thoughts on this, I read a couple of really interesting articles about the way Western audiences interpret anime. One I found particularly fascinating was the fact that some of the Magical Girl series that are touted in the West as being strongly feminist are, in Japan, primarily aimed at adult men who fetishize the cuteness and even infantilisation of the main characters. Another complicated and fascinating area was the way characters that are commonly interpreted in the West as transgender or genderqueer would in Japan be interpreted as an assault on brutally rigid gender roles rather than cisnormative identities.
And like, how do you navigate that? From my uneducated position, I don't see that there's much conflict between a kid in Britain watching Utena and seeing someone affirmatively genderqueer and a kid in Japan watching it and seeing a girl assert her identity as female through nontraditional means. But I think it gets more complicated if you know something may have an actively negative connotation in its original context, even if that context is invisible to you before it's pointed out? Fortunately, I don't believe Utena is not one of those series that is misogynistic in its original context - or at least, not in the ways I outline above. But as we'll get to, there are things about it that leave me slightly uneasy, as well as things I think are completely fascinating.
It's essentially impossible to talk about, well, anything without spoilers, so if you plan to watch it and are strictly spoiler avoidant, it's probably best to skip the upcoming cut. However, I will do my best to keep this at a "review" level of spoilers for those interested in reading on.
The show throws itself into tropes and stereotypes and then undermines a lot of them. But there are also parts of it where I'm not sure if it's legitimately deconstructionist, or simply replicating with enough artistic gravitas it passes for deconstruction.
The most complicated character by far is Anthy Himemiya, and her presentation in the first 13 episodes is probably a good example of this. She's a beautiful object, literally being passed to the current winning duelist, and so we meet Utena, our brave Prince, determined to save her friend by chivalrously duelling to defend her.
This dynamic is absolutely examined, inverted, shredded, rebuilt and then destroyed again over the course of the series.
But Anthy spends this time essentially behaving as a hypersubmissive "ideal woman" with some "adorkable" quirks. It's not a narrative problem per se, because this trope is, once again, roundly subverted. The problem is that I'm pretty sure the show is expecting the audience to respond more favourably to the trope she's embodying than I did. Even if it's later revealed to be a trick, we're still supposed to believe that our heroine forges a powerful friendship with her during this time. I guess what I'm saying is that I think this whole section is narratively far less effective if the viewer doesn't buy the (gross) trope. So at the same time I'm impressed they later undermine it, I'm not sure how I feel about the fact they're obviously writing those early episodes with the assumption that the trope is a good enough way to code Anthy as sympathetic and appealing to me as a viewer.
Or like, this show has one of the most brutally honest (in many ways because it's so TOTALLY clear yet amazingly understated) depictions of statutory rape I've seen in media. It's chilling and sickening in its banality and pulls no punches with its condemnation.
At the same time, though, I was never 100% comfortable with the level of objectification and sexualisation in the series, especially when so much of it is supposed to be critiquing that, and then...I'm not sure when it becomes presentation instead of criticism. And I'd tell myself to be more generous, except then I watched the movie they made after the end of the series. It isn't a sequel, it's essentially a reimagination, and they gave the anime's director (Kunihiko Ikuhara) complete creative control. And basically I feel it's pretty exploitative in its treatment of sexay chicks making out. And while I know a lot of the complicated stuff from the series just couldn't be done in an 80 minute movie, I still felt that they dumped...pretty much everything that made Anthy so complicated and turned it into a straight-up rescue-the-princess storyline. Albeit with chicks that TURN INTO FUCKING CARS WHAT. And then found out the director does indeed proclaim himself to be a feminist, and I'm sure believes that, and he's certainly produced some work to back it up, but also makes weird comments about not wanting guys touching "his" girls (with regard to the queer content).
On the other hand, I know that a lot of the writers room dynamics that stopped that from happening in the anime series probably came from Chiho Saito, the woman who wrote the manga (comic) version and was one of the writers on the series. She apparently threatened to quit the project if there was unambiguous homosexual content (err, between the two main characters, that is. There IS unambiguous homosexual content with regards to several other characters).
So like, on the one hand, I have a raftload of reasons why I actually really enjoy the subtextual, ambiguous relationship Anthy and Utena have in the anime (which I can explain if anyone cares?), and think it tows a difficult line pretty well, I'm sort of...wondering if we got that because it was a bizarre tug of war between a guy who wanted to fetishise lesbians and a homophobe, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.
Anyway,look. I've kind of...spent all this time talking about how complicated I feel about this show and I feel I'm doing it a disservice because, well, because it's really fucking interesting. Like it genuinely is. It's also incredibly complicated and very symbolic and surreal.
I feel it manages something very few series manage; namely it makes me feel like the series is coherent while still leaving a lot to my personal interpretation. And I don't feel like it's lesser for that, or like the creators didn't give a shit.
It's clearly work with something complicated to say, and something that I think, most of the time, is worthy of consideration and thought.
It's about that brutal, violent meeting of idealism and reality, and I suppose the brutal, violent meeting of childhood and adulthood is a good place to tell that story. I would personally have found it easier if it was set in a High School/College Academy not a Middle School/High School Academy, but, well... It's anime.
It kind of hard to talk about the rest of what it's about without gigantic spoilers. Though I suppose it's cryptic enough if I say it's maybe about Jesus, if the crucifixion was so traumatic, it turned her into Judas.
Whatever else it did, it gave me so many thoughts. I read a ton of stuff after I finished watching it. Like stuff about anime in general, about feminism in Japan and in anime, about Revolutionary Girl Utena specifically...
I think...if you have tried watching anime before and the format isn't your thing, then this won't be either. But if you have watched it before or if you haven't and want to some, give this a shot.
The last thing I'll say is that if you watch this, for the love of god, watch the subbed not the dubbed version. I am not usually picky about that kind of thing. I often watch the dubs even when I know they're sorta shoddy and just deal with the not-so-amazing voice actors because I'm lazy. I'm a terrible person and I mutilate art.
But in this case, please, please, please do not do that. I actually went back and rewatched the episodes I did watch dubbed when I realised what a terrible mistake I was making. The problem is that Anthy, a pivotal character, whose emotional arc completely depends on being able to tell whether she means what she's saying or she's faking it via her tone of voice, is voiced by an awful voice actress. I don't know if she's just plain bad or had weird direction or what, but she acts like a cheerful, vacant Stepford Wife the entire time. Like during explosively personal, painful scenes, she's like...Barney the Dinosauring, "I'm sorry! I caused you so much pain! Silly old me!" Argh.
Just...for your own sanity, use the sub.
Also, I have discovered that Welcome to Night Vale and Revolutionary Girl Utena make the most beautiful mashups. I am completely obsessed with the perfection of this tumblr. It honestly makes me feel like I understand RG:U better. Which...probably tells you something about its storytelling style.
Anyway.
It has been too long since I posted, and now this post is also too long. So I bid you all sweet dreams.
Which people have basically been telling me to watch since I discovered I adored Martian Successor: Nadesico (another 90s anime) but was sort of hovering somewhere towards the lower end of my "to do" list of media because I have a complicated relationship with anime. I want to love it. I feel like I should love it. It's an endless supply of amazing, complicated fantasy/sci fi stories, without the same kind of budget limitations because they're animated, that tell complete season-long stories, so I don't have to cry when it inevitably jumps the shark, and the fact it's animated doesn't bug me at all.
That said, I find a lot of the tropes and stock characters really distracting and sometimes straight-up gross. Some of that I overcome through immersion in the series, particularly if it plays its surreal hyperreality sections well in the context of the narrative (Nadesico with its crew-of-misfits humour, Utena with its straight up magic realism). It's always tricky calling out things you find offensive (or even empowering) across cultural lines, not cus other cultures should get a pass at treating people badly, but because you lack context. While trying to work out some of my thoughts on this, I read a couple of really interesting articles about the way Western audiences interpret anime. One I found particularly fascinating was the fact that some of the Magical Girl series that are touted in the West as being strongly feminist are, in Japan, primarily aimed at adult men who fetishize the cuteness and even infantilisation of the main characters. Another complicated and fascinating area was the way characters that are commonly interpreted in the West as transgender or genderqueer would in Japan be interpreted as an assault on brutally rigid gender roles rather than cisnormative identities.
And like, how do you navigate that? From my uneducated position, I don't see that there's much conflict between a kid in Britain watching Utena and seeing someone affirmatively genderqueer and a kid in Japan watching it and seeing a girl assert her identity as female through nontraditional means. But I think it gets more complicated if you know something may have an actively negative connotation in its original context, even if that context is invisible to you before it's pointed out? Fortunately, I don't believe Utena is not one of those series that is misogynistic in its original context - or at least, not in the ways I outline above. But as we'll get to, there are things about it that leave me slightly uneasy, as well as things I think are completely fascinating.
It's essentially impossible to talk about, well, anything without spoilers, so if you plan to watch it and are strictly spoiler avoidant, it's probably best to skip the upcoming cut. However, I will do my best to keep this at a "review" level of spoilers for those interested in reading on.
The show throws itself into tropes and stereotypes and then undermines a lot of them. But there are also parts of it where I'm not sure if it's legitimately deconstructionist, or simply replicating with enough artistic gravitas it passes for deconstruction.
The most complicated character by far is Anthy Himemiya, and her presentation in the first 13 episodes is probably a good example of this. She's a beautiful object, literally being passed to the current winning duelist, and so we meet Utena, our brave Prince, determined to save her friend by chivalrously duelling to defend her.
This dynamic is absolutely examined, inverted, shredded, rebuilt and then destroyed again over the course of the series.
But Anthy spends this time essentially behaving as a hypersubmissive "ideal woman" with some "adorkable" quirks. It's not a narrative problem per se, because this trope is, once again, roundly subverted. The problem is that I'm pretty sure the show is expecting the audience to respond more favourably to the trope she's embodying than I did. Even if it's later revealed to be a trick, we're still supposed to believe that our heroine forges a powerful friendship with her during this time. I guess what I'm saying is that I think this whole section is narratively far less effective if the viewer doesn't buy the (gross) trope. So at the same time I'm impressed they later undermine it, I'm not sure how I feel about the fact they're obviously writing those early episodes with the assumption that the trope is a good enough way to code Anthy as sympathetic and appealing to me as a viewer.
Or like, this show has one of the most brutally honest (in many ways because it's so TOTALLY clear yet amazingly understated) depictions of statutory rape I've seen in media. It's chilling and sickening in its banality and pulls no punches with its condemnation.
At the same time, though, I was never 100% comfortable with the level of objectification and sexualisation in the series, especially when so much of it is supposed to be critiquing that, and then...I'm not sure when it becomes presentation instead of criticism. And I'd tell myself to be more generous, except then I watched the movie they made after the end of the series. It isn't a sequel, it's essentially a reimagination, and they gave the anime's director (Kunihiko Ikuhara) complete creative control. And basically I feel it's pretty exploitative in its treatment of sexay chicks making out. And while I know a lot of the complicated stuff from the series just couldn't be done in an 80 minute movie, I still felt that they dumped...pretty much everything that made Anthy so complicated and turned it into a straight-up rescue-the-princess storyline. Albeit with chicks that TURN INTO FUCKING CARS WHAT. And then found out the director does indeed proclaim himself to be a feminist, and I'm sure believes that, and he's certainly produced some work to back it up, but also makes weird comments about not wanting guys touching "his" girls (with regard to the queer content).
On the other hand, I know that a lot of the writers room dynamics that stopped that from happening in the anime series probably came from Chiho Saito, the woman who wrote the manga (comic) version and was one of the writers on the series. She apparently threatened to quit the project if there was unambiguous homosexual content (err, between the two main characters, that is. There IS unambiguous homosexual content with regards to several other characters).
So like, on the one hand, I have a raftload of reasons why I actually really enjoy the subtextual, ambiguous relationship Anthy and Utena have in the anime (which I can explain if anyone cares?), and think it tows a difficult line pretty well, I'm sort of...wondering if we got that because it was a bizarre tug of war between a guy who wanted to fetishise lesbians and a homophobe, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.
Anyway,look. I've kind of...spent all this time talking about how complicated I feel about this show and I feel I'm doing it a disservice because, well, because it's really fucking interesting. Like it genuinely is. It's also incredibly complicated and very symbolic and surreal.
I feel it manages something very few series manage; namely it makes me feel like the series is coherent while still leaving a lot to my personal interpretation. And I don't feel like it's lesser for that, or like the creators didn't give a shit.
It's clearly work with something complicated to say, and something that I think, most of the time, is worthy of consideration and thought.
It's about that brutal, violent meeting of idealism and reality, and I suppose the brutal, violent meeting of childhood and adulthood is a good place to tell that story. I would personally have found it easier if it was set in a High School/College Academy not a Middle School/High School Academy, but, well... It's anime.
It kind of hard to talk about the rest of what it's about without gigantic spoilers. Though I suppose it's cryptic enough if I say it's maybe about Jesus, if the crucifixion was so traumatic, it turned her into Judas.
Whatever else it did, it gave me so many thoughts. I read a ton of stuff after I finished watching it. Like stuff about anime in general, about feminism in Japan and in anime, about Revolutionary Girl Utena specifically...
I think...if you have tried watching anime before and the format isn't your thing, then this won't be either. But if you have watched it before or if you haven't and want to some, give this a shot.
The last thing I'll say is that if you watch this, for the love of god, watch the subbed not the dubbed version. I am not usually picky about that kind of thing. I often watch the dubs even when I know they're sorta shoddy and just deal with the not-so-amazing voice actors because I'm lazy. I'm a terrible person and I mutilate art.
But in this case, please, please, please do not do that. I actually went back and rewatched the episodes I did watch dubbed when I realised what a terrible mistake I was making. The problem is that Anthy, a pivotal character, whose emotional arc completely depends on being able to tell whether she means what she's saying or she's faking it via her tone of voice, is voiced by an awful voice actress. I don't know if she's just plain bad or had weird direction or what, but she acts like a cheerful, vacant Stepford Wife the entire time. Like during explosively personal, painful scenes, she's like...Barney the Dinosauring, "I'm sorry! I caused you so much pain! Silly old me!" Argh.
Just...for your own sanity, use the sub.
Also, I have discovered that Welcome to Night Vale and Revolutionary Girl Utena make the most beautiful mashups. I am completely obsessed with the perfection of this tumblr. It honestly makes me feel like I understand RG:U better. Which...probably tells you something about its storytelling style.
Anyway.
It has been too long since I posted, and now this post is also too long. So I bid you all sweet dreams.
no subject
Date: 2014-03-12 09:35 pm (UTC)Also, before I say anything else - A:tLA is good, no doubt, but I'm like you - when people try to tell me I "have" to watch something and/or try to force it on me, I dig my heels in and am all NOPE. So I totally feel you there :)
I saw that post on tumblr, and I think it was you that I reblogged it from. It's got me thinking about things as I play through Final Fantasy XII for the millionth time (not that I've really written them down, because I'm not Japanese, and I'm bound to get some interpretations wrong). Also it's made me think about digging out my book about understanding Japanese culture (that book is the shit,
although I can't remember its title right nowscratch that, it's called A Japanese Mirror).And yeah - if you want an example that magical girl shows aren't made for girls/women, look no further than Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha - there's cringeworthy sexualising of an nine year old in that. Added to which, the main character and her family first appeared in an ecchi game which...yeah...
Also I always watch subs over dubs because I'm picky about voices, and until really recently, dubs of Japanese stuff was absolutely shit, because I think the western industry honestly didn't care - the same can be said of video game dubs, too.
no subject
Date: 2014-03-12 11:49 pm (UTC)I have it on DVD, so if you want, I could make some copies for you and mail them to you? Let me know if you're interested.
Sadly I don't have Utena on DVD, but yeah. It's worth watching, particularly since you seem to know way more about anime than me! If you're an anime fan, it is definitely, definitely worth watching.
I'm glad I reblogged that link - I couldn't remember if I did that or just "liked" it. It was super interesting, and it's awesome that it was interesting to you too. Thanks for the link to the book on Japanese culture, too. Hopefully I'll have a chance to look into that at some point. (Though I definitely will not be looking into that Magical Girl series you mention. o.O)
no subject
Date: 2014-03-15 08:23 pm (UTC)Oh wow, that would be really kind of you! Is there anything I can do for you in return?
particularly since you seem to know way more about anime than me!
Ahaahahahahahahahahaha I don't know about that! I'm less into anime than I was (not that you'd know it from looking at my TV tag right now, though!)
You know, it could've been that you just liked it, and it caught my eye in the sidebar on your blog? I think it just looked interesting, so opened it up in a new tab - in fact, that's probably it.
It is a really good book, and while it may not mean you completely understand Japanese culture (I certainly don't! Nor would I claim to), it sheds light on certain stuff (fr'ex like why drunken fathers are such a trope, and why Japanese people do certain things, but obviously it covers more than that).
No, don't bother with Nanoha. It sounds interesting, but I just...there's some stuff I can deal with, but with the sexualisation and some other stuff, I was just, "nope".
no subject
Date: 2014-03-17 12:30 pm (UTC)One thing though.
"One I found particularly fascinating was the fact that some of the Magical Girl series that are touted in the West as being strongly feminist are, in Japan, primarily aimed at adult men who fetishize the cuteness and even infantilisation of the main characters."
My understanding is there are some shows for men and some shows for teenage girls? And I THINK Utena is the latter? Along with like Marimite and Strawberry Panic and Rose of Versailles. But I watched one of the former by mistake once, I've forgotten the name, and the difference was quite marked. Like even the animation was different. (Boobs. In a gross way.) But IDK, I didn't do a lot of reading around this so I may have it wrong.
no subject
Date: 2014-03-17 11:02 pm (UTC)For reference I found the post that got me started on that train of wild and erratic interwebbery, and it is here. It's a Western someone's slideshow about feminism and anime and a Japanese someone's response. It's the response I found interesting.
But absolutely, I agree, I don't think Utena IS one of those shows. Though the commentor mentiones Madoka which I know I've seen generally well-received by people (though I have zero experience with it myself) as a show that she considers to be aimed primarily at older men. I think (and may be wrong) that it's not always just overt OMFG BOOBIES sexualisation (though I know that happens in shows that also play to the omgs-adorable! tropes), but like, also fetishisation of certain types of hypercuteness and helplessness?
Yeah, though, I wasn't trying to draw a direct parallel, so much as it was an interesting tangent that was illustrative of my curiosity regarding how my interpretation would stack against the original cultural context. I also guess I found the notion that the Magical Girl genre is responsible for both creating empowering narratives for women and creating a subgenre that is actively exploitative, interesting, complicated and confusing.
Without drawing a direct parallel (cus I don't think it'd be accurate or appropriate), it did in some ways remind me of my uncertainty surrounding Saito and Ikuhara and their respective agendas...
Massively fascinating show, though. Definitely worth a rewatch. I'm pretty sure it's the sort of thing I'll want to rewatch later, like in months or years, when I have an understanding of the story, but also distance, to see how it holds up.
no subject
Date: 2014-07-22 03:47 am (UTC)So, uh, yeah. I'm so sorry in advance for how long this comment ended up being. /o\
I unabashedly adore this show, but I definitely think your concerns are valid ones. As are the concerns of the person responding to that tumblr post, especially. I'm not particularly up on Japanese feminism, although that tumblr post when I ran across it a few months back is something that really pushes me to stop messing around and get on that. I can only say that the show had a hugely positive and inspiring impact on me personally at a young age, at the same time I was first reading a lot of feminist theory. It resonated and it still resonates with my experience.
I will 100% defer to anyone who is Japanese on this, but speaking simply as a person who has watched quite a lot of (good and truly awful) anime over the last couple decades, I don't feel like Utena falls into the "cute girls marketed to boys" category. It's pretty solidly of the shoujo genre and had a lot of forerunners like Rose of Versailles, Princess Knight, and even Sailor Moon, which Ikuhara had done directing work for preceding Utena. The influences of those three works in particular are pretty huge in the Utena series. If you've seen any Rose of Versailles, the similarities are uncanny at times. Ikuhara and some of the other production members have also spoken quite a lot about the influences of Takarazuka theater on the show, which is and all women theater troupe whose performances are very much geared towards and are hugely popular with female audiences. With all that working for it, I don't read the show as being marketed intentionally toward men. Not that it had all that much marketing at all to begin with. It's always been a bit niche.
I'm genuinely curious about what context you saw Ikuhara declare himself to be feminist. Do you know the source or have a link? I've read a lot of interviews with him over the years and I haven't seen an outright declaration like that. I'm wondering if it might have been a translation issue since the word "feminist" can actually mean "chivalrous" in Japanese. I can't quite picture Ikuhara declaring himself chivalrous either, but he's an odd duck, that one. So who knows.
The movie is definitely a love or hate thing. I love it and the expressly romantic relationship in it didn't feel exploitative to me, it felt like a natural progression and at long last actual representation, but YMMV. I don't think Ikuhara's a perfect feminist if he's ever thought of himself as such, but at the end of the day I agree with him inasmuch as he wants to let the work speak for itself and be up to individual interpretation. He's notorious for dodging "what does ____ mean?" and "what did you intend by _____?" questions. Usually with strange stories about UFOs abducting him and predicting his future. And at least compared to Mawaru Penguindrum, his most recent anime, he was definitely holding back on the fanservice elements for the Utena movie.
Have you run across the theory that the movie is an extension of the series rather than an alternate retelling? It's a fascinating read, even if you don't buy into it. It's over here if you're interested. There's also tons of great essays and such over at ohtori.nu, although I honestly haven't revisted them in quite a few years. This is if you're still interested in reading meta at all, that is.
And yeah, that dub is such a tragedy. Anthy's Japanese voice actress is a master though. I can't get over the subtle inflections she uses to completely change the tone of a scene.
no subject
Date: 2014-07-27 03:28 pm (UTC)First off, yeah, I completely agree that it's not one of those animes that's designed to infantilise the heroine and for the reasons you give. I mean, again, obviously I'd defer to someone with more knowledge, but that's my instinct. I should have clarified - that was like...an interesting investigative tangent that I spun down that eventually lead me towards the stuff about gender queerness vs asserting traditional gender identities through non-traditional means? But yeah. Like I said, I agree with you on that one!
I also can't find the place with the feminist comment and it was a while ago - I suspect it was actually a reference in some fan essay I read somewhere as I didn't read too many direct interviews, mostly articles on anime or Utena specifically (and yes! I did find ohtori.nu - it's great!) Your comment does make me wonder if it was mistranslated or interpreted in a way that wasn't strictly accurate. Although I did get the impression that he at least presented himself (sometimes, because yeah, I also picked up that he tends to give deliberately contradictory answers to questions about the meaning of his work) as someone who was aware of the gender issues surrounding the series and sought to focus on women within them. This interview, for instance - http://ohtori.nu/creators/a_aextra2.html - has him agreeing with Saito's more explicity support of feminism in Utena's gender roles?
However! To the movie!
Okay so first, no I hadn't read that theory and it's really fucking interesting. There's a lot about it I think works and it certainly presents a coherent and much less objectionable way for me to incorporate the movie into my understanding of the Utena canon.
But to answer your question about why I didn't like it, I'll explain my thinking at the time, and then go on to discuss the potential truth of the theory.
So the first thing I should explain is that even though I have very conflicting feelings about the reasons for it (and even though I ship it), I'm glad that Utena and Anthy's relationship within the bounds of the television series did not develop into something sexual. There's never a point until the very end of the series where the issue of consent wouldn't be well, an issue, either to the characters or to us as viewers (Anthy was manipulating Utena for a very long time, and Utena would have known that Anthy would agree to literally anything she told her to do). Mixed with the fact that there isn't a single sexual relationship in the series that's not about exploitation and power (which in itself, we could question, but...it is what it is?) and the fact that I think one of the huge themes of the series is that painful border between childhood and adulthood - not even adolescence really (that's definitely the movie's purview) but, well. Childhood. And it's this pretty...self-aware examination of the maelstrom of fucked up shit that can happen when kids start becoming aware of their own sexuality but aren't protected or given any guidance. So in the middle of that, I was kind of...relieved to see that Utena and Anthy, particularly when they were being abused by the same dude, had in each other a sort of...life raft free of that.
I definitely ship them after the show and firmly believe they were in love. But I firmly believe within the TV series' world, that the nonsexual nature of that love was a way of keeping it pure. Which is something I feel I should caveat because often that "sex = corrupting," stuff is...dangerous bullshit. But in a series that deals so hugely with sexual abuse, and with someone so young, I think it's...a reasonable point.
So going into the movie, obviously things are different. They're all older for a start and to our knowledge this Utena isn't abused. But all the thinking about the ways that Utena's non-romantic relationship with her "Bride" in the TV series was super important meant that I was inherently uncomfortable with the way it was played as a romance in the movie.
I felt like we had Utena at her "Student Council Saga" level of development - naively wanting to believe that what Anthy is saying to her is somehow genuine and not fake and not just because she "won" her because she is benevolent, except we never got the inversions that came later?
It essentially becomes a fairly straightforward "rescue the Princess" storyline, except with a girl as the Prince.
Movie!Anthy has set up a situation waiting for someone to come rescue her and...someone does. Why this time is different - why Utena manages to get through to her when no one else could - even whether Anthy is just going along with this because it's what Utena wants? Not examined.
Combined with comments about how this was a pure vision from Ikuhara and some of his other comments (though of course, salt must be added), I felt like he had taken out a lot of the more important deconstructionist storytelling in order to sexualise them and make it overtly romantic. It felt like the only deconstruction was with regards to the gender of the Prince, not with the fact that the entire concept functions along gendered lines. So instead we still get a rescued damsel, and even the fact she's rescued by a woman is co-opted because the romance feels so over-sexualised and designed for the male gaze. Again there may be cultural things I'm missing, but the sexual content in the movie felt exploitative to me in a way it didn't in the TV series.
However, let's talk about the sequel theory. It's actually really pretty solid, and if it's true it does address a lot of my problems with it. It explains why we can trust Anthy's intentions, it explains why Utena does too, on an instinctive level. It takes place when they are both older and emotionally at a place (post-TV series) where I believe they would be suited to starting a relationship. It explains why the issues they deal with are simplistic if measured against the original series, because they are different, although similar enough one could mistake them for a watered down version of each other.
That said, I still feel a little depressed thinking that for all Anthy's resolve at that final scene, she ends up trapped in another coffin, albeit one closer to the "surface", and that she still needs rescuing. I understand the notion of leaving together this time being positive, and I don't want to say that you never need assistance to achieve catharsis or transformation - that would be bullshit. But there is a level of regression, I think, to Anthy needing a Prince after all - to physically needing Utena as her vehicle of escape.
I think...I think I feel more complicatedly about that last part than I'm able to explain. I don't think - in light of this theory - it's as simple as "Oh, but she still needs Utena to rescue her again," because she is much more active (and one of the things I like about the theory is that it provides her with more conscious agency). But if they were going for that, I think it would have worked better if it were possible to view it as Anthy taking much more responsibility over "awakening" Utena, giving them more equity in their relationship, with Utena taking the "lead" in the TV series and Anthy doing so in the movie?
I suppose the last thing to say, though, is that even if it is true, I sadly think it's so obtuse it'll be lost on most viewers (it certainly was on me) and so even though it's one of the "hey theory about what this TV show/Movie was REALLY saying," posts that's MOST changed my opinion about something...basically ever (seriously, thanks for linking me to it), it's still...
Like, you still have to consider how the movie functions if you don't get that part of it. And without it, my opinion of it is still pretty low. :(
Finally, OMFG ANTHY'S JAPANESE VOICE ACTRESS GOD YES. You really CAN just tell and it makes the character work when it wouldn't with anyone less talented.
Wow, I think I'm done! Thanks again for a really interesting comment!
no subject
Date: 2014-08-01 08:32 pm (UTC)I completely respect your approach to the movie, and yeah, if it was intended as a sequel, that's been entirely lost on most people. Myself included for the last 13 or so years since I first saw it. I'm glad you liked the meta though! That's something I really love about this fandom. Years and years later, people are still writing intensely in-depth meta about it that makes me look at it in new and interesting ways.
I also agree with you in that I wouldn't have wanted Utena and Anthy to get together until after the point Anthy leaves Ohtori of her own accord. It's super dodgy in terms of consent preceding that point. I will say that I think the movie tries to give Anthy that same aspect of agency by putting the key in her hands and letting her make the choice about staying or leaving with Utena. But I see your point in that, either way, she couldn't do it without Utena, which recasts Utena back into the prince role. Or maybe not the prince role, since that's more strongly associated with gender in the movie, but the role of a savior. When it comes right down to it, it's got to by Anthy's choice and Anthy's own strength that gets her out of her coffin in order to bust apart those roles and really be revolutionary. I think we lose a lot of those nuances that were so great in the series because of the shorthand format.
A quick and Late Resonse
Date: 2021-05-22 05:42 pm (UTC)It seems to me that the show made attempts to make the student council members sympathetic and redeem them, and while that KIND OF worked for me with Jury and Mikki-though they are still assholes- it didn't work for me with Saionji, and DEFINITELY not with Touga. He was never sympathetic to me, and for redemption, it was one thing when he was a jerk doing nothing to disuade his younger sister's incestuous attention, but when he was making those cruel "jokes" to mess with her and I realized through his comversations with Akio that he was actually conditioning her so that he could perpetuate this cycle of abuse on her, that crossed the redemption line for me.
Similarly, they did make me sympathize with Nanami once her brother started blatantly treating her like shit, but she missed the redemption mark when she failed to converse with and help Anthy and Utena, after having seen Anthy right after Akio had raped her. Nanami just assumed that it was a totally consensual case of incest, and never talked to Anthy about it, nor did she talk to Utena. It was just "Don't you know what's going on!? [no? Well, to hell with you anyways, Utena]"-also, just too much with characters wanting to engage in incest.
I have very mixed feelings about the continuation of Anthy and Utena's romantic relationship/friendship. I was pretty upset at how Anthy betrayed Utena, setting her up to be raped by Akio, but I did understand that she very much did not want to do that, and as someone said in the comments of the episodes on Youtube, it seems that she resists when she believes she can. After she and Utena have their heart-to-heart post attempted suicide, I was feeling better about their relationship, but then in the final duel, Himemiya stabs Utena in the back, quite literally, it seems, and it there didn't seem to be any indication that she wounded Utena to save her from a worse fate, in a parralel to the story of the prince and his sister/the witch. It just seemed that Anthy once again gave into her conditioning, and decided to remain subservient to Akio.
I do love the last scene where Anthy goes away, though. I was very much in the mindset of Akio being vile and that he need to be taken down, but the way Anthy tells him that he is pathetic and not worth her time, and then immediately walks away with the happier version of "Rinbu Revolution" playing was awesome.
Finally, I am concerned about what it showed of the students of the school at the end. Is it implied that they are still subject to this ongoing cycle of abuse that was never revealed to them, and that anyone of them will be the next generation of victims and abusers under Akio's maniplative control? Is it that once Anthy threw off his hold on her, his sick confidence, ego, and framework of manipulation fell apart, and without someone so tied to him to assist with/be a central chess piece in his schemes, he is just unable to successfully prey on the people of the school in that context? It was very unclear too me.
Thank you very much for your time and for posting your review, which I greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
JMIA.