but this was the point, for me at least, when my willingness to ride the awesome and trust that they know where they're going with it just broke. and I'm much less generous than you about calling that good television storytelling.
Truthfully I'm willing to acknowledge that my generosity may stem a little from desperation. I know that I've been around and around with a friend regarding The Matrix trilogy and his belief that the third film is great because it's a literal depiction of everything losing thematic cohesion and unity at the same time the Matrix is collapsing, and I'm saying, "You can't use that as an excuse for bad storytelling just because its philosophically interesting!" So I've been on the other side of this issue too.
Your point also makes me wonder if some of my response here is in reaction to my other main fandom, the ever present Star Wars. In two weeks the last book in a two-year-nine-book series comes out and I am not calm. In fact, I think that the premiere of BSG S4 has been fabulously placed because it's offering wonderful distractions. But my main issue with said book series is that its premise is incredible. At times, its execution reaches that level. But too often its...by the numbers, in a way I can't even call by the numbers because then the people who like it start shouting, "Dark!" and "Ambiguous!" and "Daring!" and I want to say, "NO! Every death is just this side of acceptable or this side of major. Every time you add moral confusion a few books later you destroy it. It's safety masquerading as bravery! GO READ MATTHEW STOVER!"
The point of this long aside being, I've spend the last eighteen months wishing Lucasfilm Licensing had the guts to make me uncomfortable, and terrified they'll manage to do it through sheer stupidity rather than sheer bravery and...perhaps that means I'm more comfortable now thinking, "At least they're trying, and maybe I should shut up and ride the BSG train," because I have that backdrop?
Tory is deeply blank and ambivalent, but personally I have no problem running with that given the excessiveness of my ongoing fanon (LAURA JUNIOR OMG).
My fanon was always slightly different to yours, but it is rapidly skewing towards this view as it's the most supportable that still lets her be AWESOME. Though Asta has a good point about this perhaps being nearly reciprocal. Tory doesn't apply the brakes to Laura then way Lee and Billy used to. What Tory picks up from and echoes back to Laura is different to her previous protege/assistants...
and needless to say, the idea that he could turn out to be RIGHT and GOOD makes me want to stab myself in the eye.
Well, as to how it fits in with the real theology, I have two thoughts. 1) Baltar is nuts. 2) His view of God is actually quite similar to Six's and perhaps Leoben's. I think this may just be the Cylon God and Baltar's flawed understanding of it? Or heck, Six's flawed understanding of it?
HOWEVER, I cannot agree with your quoted response above enough.
Baltar CAN'T be the saviour of humanity. They haven't done anything like enough rehabbing of his character for that. True, having the skeezy guy save the day is interesting objective storytelling but you have to be careful not to aliennate your audience by telling them to love a guy as awful as Baltar can be and who is still sexually exploiting his followers. It's gross. And I think that the writers have to know how unappealing his cult is, and how it echoes some very frightening cults on Earth. *clings to Laura's description of them*
see how your interpretation about throwing out the rules just became LITERAL CANON?
OMG! *throws out the rules*
And honestly, again, that's part of why I think I'm attributing bravery and good writing to this rather than confusion and laziness. Because it's my turn to defend the Matrix or whatever, and I'm a little fascinated by the notion of throwing out the rules in-universe as well as in a meta-sense re: the actual episodes. The notion I'm defending that makes me feel...odd. :/
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Part 1
Date: 2008-04-28 01:47 pm (UTC)Truthfully I'm willing to acknowledge that my generosity may stem a little from desperation. I know that I've been around and around with a friend regarding The Matrix trilogy and his belief that the third film is great because it's a literal depiction of everything losing thematic cohesion and unity at the same time the Matrix is collapsing, and I'm saying, "You can't use that as an excuse for bad storytelling just because its philosophically interesting!" So I've been on the other side of this issue too.
Your point also makes me wonder if some of my response here is in reaction to my other main fandom, the ever present Star Wars. In two weeks the last book in a two-year-nine-book series comes out and I am not calm. In fact, I think that the premiere of BSG S4 has been fabulously placed because it's offering wonderful distractions. But my main issue with said book series is that its premise is incredible. At times, its execution reaches that level. But too often its...by the numbers, in a way I can't even call by the numbers because then the people who like it start shouting, "Dark!" and "Ambiguous!" and "Daring!" and I want to say, "NO! Every death is just this side of acceptable or this side of major. Every time you add moral confusion a few books later you destroy it. It's safety masquerading as bravery! GO READ MATTHEW STOVER!"
The point of this long aside being, I've spend the last eighteen months wishing Lucasfilm Licensing had the guts to make me uncomfortable, and terrified they'll manage to do it through sheer stupidity rather than sheer bravery and...perhaps that means I'm more comfortable now thinking, "At least they're trying, and maybe I should shut up and ride the BSG train," because I have that backdrop?
Tory is deeply blank and ambivalent, but personally I have no problem running with that given the excessiveness of my ongoing fanon (LAURA JUNIOR OMG).
My fanon was always slightly different to yours, but it is rapidly skewing towards this view as it's the most supportable that still lets her be AWESOME. Though Asta has a good point about this perhaps being nearly reciprocal. Tory doesn't apply the brakes to Laura then way Lee and Billy used to. What Tory picks up from and echoes back to Laura is different to her previous protege/assistants...
and needless to say, the idea that he could turn out to be RIGHT and GOOD makes me want to stab myself in the eye.
Well, as to how it fits in with the real theology, I have two thoughts. 1) Baltar is nuts. 2) His view of God is actually quite similar to Six's and perhaps Leoben's. I think this may just be the Cylon God and Baltar's flawed understanding of it? Or heck, Six's flawed understanding of it?
HOWEVER, I cannot agree with your quoted response above enough.
Baltar CAN'T be the saviour of humanity. They haven't done anything like enough rehabbing of his character for that. True, having the skeezy guy save the day is interesting objective storytelling but you have to be careful not to aliennate your audience by telling them to love a guy as awful as Baltar can be and who is still sexually exploiting his followers. It's gross. And I think that the writers have to know how unappealing his cult is, and how it echoes some very frightening cults on Earth. *clings to Laura's description of them*
see how your interpretation about throwing out the rules just became LITERAL CANON?
OMG! *throws out the rules*
And honestly, again, that's part of why I think I'm attributing bravery and good writing to this rather than confusion and laziness. Because it's my turn to defend the Matrix or whatever, and I'm a little fascinated by the notion of throwing out the rules in-universe as well as in a meta-sense re: the actual episodes. The notion I'm defending that makes me feel...odd. :/