beccatoria: (olivia!)
[personal profile] beccatoria
Okay, so, I have the unfortunate sinking feeling that despite best efforts I am now a Proper Mildly Obsessed fan of this show rather than a casual viewer who likes it a lot. How can I tell, you ask? Because I'm now totally paranoid that somehow they will screw up the season finale next week and I'll have to hate it or something. I don't have any evidence, you understand, to suggest this is the case. I'm just...smart like that. I guess the real issue is partly gunshy feelings from getting burned from the last show I loved and trusted, but more than that, a slightly more objective genuine inability to tell if all the awesome stuff about the show is intentional or a little more accidental. I want to write reams of meta about how Olivia and Walter are incredible, but for some reason, perhaps because the show just hasn't been quite good enough, I have this niggling feeling that the house of cards holding up everything I like about this show will collapse any episode now.

I wish I knew why. Possibly some of my fears would be allayed if they went back to treating Peter like the plot-point/damsel-in-distress he used to be. I think he did better in that role - they keep trying to make him relevant, but it's not really working for me. I just miss Olivia.

SPEAKING OF. I will permit myself a brief bit of meta:

Olivia Dunham: TOTALLY THE MAN OF THE HOUSE.

One of the things I like about this show is how physically confident they allow Olivia to be. She really owns the space she moves in. One of the things that originally made me sit up and pay attention to the show's treatment of Olivia in terms of her gender was when they had her grab a bad guy by the lapels in a classic Cop Move, but it's just something so male that it was really startling to see a woman do it, succeed at it, and have it pass without comment. Similarly, I love in the Noir musical episode, they had her as a Private Eye, so what did they do? They had her move like one. They had her play it like Humphrey Bogart, not like Lauren Bacall. There's a wonderful, physical matter-of-factness to Olivia's character.

I enjoy that a lot of what they've done with Olivia's character on a day-to-day basis, is just...write her exactly as they would write a man in her position. There's rarely any effort to feminise her, to make this argument that she's a competent female cop as opposed to a competent cop. Now, that attitude would not be helpful in all situations because one could rightly argue that in this situation "cop" is very "male" and all I'm doing by enjoying Olivia's ability to assume male traits is reinforcing that Cop=Male. But, without getting into schools of feminism, which always confuses me, in this specific instance, with this specific character, I enjoy the subversion of how well she succeeds at it, without ever straying into territory that would get her labeled (in a negative, sexist way) "butch".

Anyway, one other area I've noticed Olivia taking on a male role is in her home life.

I was quite pleased to see from the finale that it looks like her sister and niece are still living with her. While I wish we saw them more, to be honest, the fact we almost never do kind of adds to the net effect. She's the never-at-home father figure who nonetheless dotes on her child. I enjoy unconventional family dynamics and I also enjoy the fact that Olivia is allowed to have a positive, influential relationship with a child - to participate in parenting her, to a degree, without actually having to have a child cus we all know that's what girls really want.

A parallel issue that is rampant in television, some women don't want kids at all, not even getting to be the Cool Aunt/Surrogate Father Figure, and I'm not trying to undermine that here, but I am talking about something slightly different - i.e. Olivia gets to have a kid, sort of, without having to literally have a kid. I mean, it's basically a very stereotypically male way of having a kid.

Olivia has basically become Ella's workaholic father. I find this hilarious and kind of awesome.

Ella has totally internalised the "Don't bother Daddy when he's doing important work," routine, as evidenced by her being okay with Olivia having to blow off their Daddy-Daughter Aunt-Niece day together.

When Rachel dumps Ella on Olivia in an emergency, Olivia panics somewhat and then dumps Ella on her assistant.

And Rachel does hilarious things like ask if Olivia will be home for dinner, and touching things like saying Ella has inherited some of Olivia's traits.

So. Yeah. Olivia Dunham, totally the Man of the House. <3

Date: 2010-05-15 07:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ivanolix.livejournal.com
Olivia has basically become Ella's workaholic father.

I noticed this! <3

I get the point that we don't want women to only be seen as awesome in traditionally masculine roles, but I don't think that's what they're doing with Olivia—it's an action show, and she's an action-cop hero(ine), so she's fulfilling those tropes. They just happen to be also considered as masculine because of societal conditioning.

So yes, I am very gleeful and yet also very afraid that they will mess it up. I'm glad that Peter has not been given more of a role than "your reactions to all this crap are important", while Olivia still drives the action. The episode with him and the other female cop (who I adored) felt very much like "Here's the special episode where our minor character gets to be the lead for once...aww, how cute, now we can get back to usual." And especially in this finale, he's a bit of a Macguffin again. I want to hope for greatness, I really do.

Also, have you seen the press releases for JJ's upcoming new show? It looks equally promising; I think he might be my favorite genre-creator at this point.

Date: 2010-05-15 07:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] beccatoria.livejournal.com
Yes, I agree - I think in this instance it feels very much like the character simply happens to be a girl, and thus it's unusual, rather than the character having to pretend she's not a girl. I just wanted to acknowledge that in other situations, simply forcing male characteristics onto a female character may not work, which you know, just comes of my habit of disclaiming everything. ;)

I liked the female cop Peter was partnered with too! So much more interesting than Peter! I do like your perspective of Peter being the more minor character. And I also agree that while Peter's gotten to be a BIGGER elephant in the room this season he still really doesn't do that much. But I feel, and this may be subjective, that they try to pretend more this season - everything from putting him front and centre in more of the promo material to trying harder to stretch to giving him stuff to do in episodes, to making him the primary object that motivates both Walter and Olivia (that last one I'm not entirely against because he does need some part of the story and also, it's pretty entertaining that he's still the object). So in totality I think I do notice more of a shift to trying to make Peter more relevant? Which worries me? Plus the fact an inordinately large contingent of online fandom seem to think he's the most interesting character?

I mean ultimately, this is the crux of my conflict. Despite all my fears, the show hasn't screwed up yet. So how can I tell how objective my fears are? Why can't I shake them? *sigh*

I heard Abrams had a new how coming out but I hadn't really checked it out yet - I figured I'd catch up on the news closer to the time. At this point, with Lost, Fringe, Star Trek and this new show, I have to wonder what level of involvement he even has with Fringe anymore? I mean, I don't really mind either way as long as the show keeps being good. I do wonder how the hell he does it though!

I'll be honest, I LOVED the new Star Trek movie, but have never been able to get into Lost, though equally, I'm sure it's a good show, and think Alias is a mixed bag. The first two seasons are awesome, the third was really uneven, I liked it again in the fourth even though apparently that's when it started going off the rails, and never go around to watching the fifth (which I have been told is a good thing). So...I don't really know where I stand on him as a show creator, but...I like him enough I'd give a new show of his a shot?

Date: 2010-05-15 07:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gonzo21.livejournal.com
Alias suffered its dip in quality when JJ went off to do Lost... I'm not exactly over the moon to hear he's abandoning Fringe to go do something else.

Date: 2010-05-16 10:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] beccatoria.livejournal.com
Hmm, that's interesting, I didn't know that the drop in quality coincided with his leaving. That said, I'm not sure how involved he's been with Fringe for a while now - he's listed as one of three co-creators and obviously was very heavily involved with Star Trek for quite some time. If this new show replaces Lost which I believe is in its final season, he'll still just have two shows on air and a movie franchise. More than most showrunners, but pretty much the same as it's been throughout Fringe's run? *hopes*

Date: 2010-05-16 10:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gonzo21.livejournal.com
I have no idea if Lost had a quality dip when he left that show, because I could never get into it. Watched the first half of the first season, and just didn't like any of the characters.

I know what you mean about not quite being there with the love of Fringe either. I like it a lot, but I don't... love it yet.

Date: 2010-05-15 07:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ivanolix.livejournal.com
I'm okay with the "pretend Peter's relevant" antics, since it seems to be aimed at fandom (which is insanely pro-Peter, sadly), and so I get the feeling that they won't change the core of the roles. But still...ack, mostly-unfounded fears.

I never got into Lost either, and haven't tried Alias. But with Star Trek and Fringe and the info on this new show, I really like his subtle subversion of some very annoying media trends. It's some much needed growth in the industry, at the very least.

Date: 2010-05-15 10:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] asta77.livejournal.com
I'd recommend the first two seasons of Alias, but the show went off the rails after that. I saw the same thing happening with Lost and quit watching during the second season. Given the WTF? recaps I read now, I'm glad I did.

Date: 2010-05-16 10:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gonzo21.livejournal.com
I thought the final season of Alias started to come back on form, just about when they killed it off early and ruined the ending.

Date: 2010-05-16 10:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] beccatoria.livejournal.com
Yeah I really don't get what's up with Peter being so popular with fandom. I almost want to get a little uniform and badge and go LJ to LJ knocking like an annoying political candidate handing out leaflets trying to explain how they're setting themselves up for disappointment. Like, "Have you considered liking Olivia? Or failing that starting to see other shows?"

Though! One thing I only finally realised like..yesterday or something embarrassing like that is that Anna Torv gets top billing in this show. Which pleases me. And John Noble gets last billing, which is kind of like second-top-billing. So poor Pacey is pushed into second and theoretical third. I feel petty for finding this comforting but I do...

As to Alias, I'd stick with Asta's words below. The first two seasons are great and I liked the fourth cus it hit some personal kinks of mine, but I have to confess that it didn't really hit the quality of the first two again.

Date: 2010-05-15 08:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] coffeejunkii.livejournal.com
i have quite a lot of confidence in the finale being awesome! but i also don't have any specific expectations as to how the situation should be resolved other than that i hope olivia, peter, and walter make it back safely.

i was surprised to see that rachel and ella still live with olivia, too. i thought for sure they'd moved out because there are a number of scenes in which we see olivia at home this season and it always seemed to me as if she was alone.

i've really liked the way fringe has handled olivia's character. what i like even more is that the show has not gone after the olivia/peter romance in an aggressive way. i totally appreciate that.

Date: 2010-05-16 10:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] beccatoria.livejournal.com
I'm just nervous cus I read a couple of non-spoilers cast interviews being all, "OMG, the last few minutes are SO SHOCKING!!" that made me panic. Cus historically that's been code for "We did something totally random and nonsensical to get ratings!" But that said, I really...am not being very kind to a show that hasn't let me down yet, so I'm trying to achieve your level of optimism. I do wonder if this finale will be make or break for me and Fringe? Like if it will make me dive into it if it impresses me or push me away if it doesn't? I guess we'll see.....

As to Ella and Rachel, I think they're still living with her? I mean, when Olivia hugs Rachel she says, "We should do this more often," even though they're not doing anything. I took that to mean, we should take a minute out to have hugs more often, but it could have meant, "I should have you guys over for sleepovers when I'm never in the house cus I'm working a case," more often. But again, like you, there were times when she was at home and appeared to be alone. I guess though, that was usually during the day when Ella might have been at school and Rachel at work, or very late at night.

I think I feel a little awkward at the Peter/Olivia romance. Again, it's something they haven't actually failed yet and I like that it's more backgrounded, but I don't like that they are dragging it out? Which is mainly just cus I really don't see any chemistry between them at all other than as pseudo-siblings. OH GOOD LORD IT'S LEE/KARA ALL OVER AGAIN! ;)

Date: 2010-05-16 03:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] coffeejunkii.livejournal.com
well, they did something similar in the last season finale when the camera pulls back and reveals olivia is standing in the world trade center. it was shocking and has turned out to be central to the narrative arc. so if it's something like that, it would be awesome. i'm also willing to give the writers the benefit of the doubt because when i rewatched s1, i found that the overall arc is very carefully laid out beginning with the pilot. so i think they have a plan!

it was a little weird. wasn't ella sleeping in olivia's bed? why would she? i guess i could see it as a sleep-over, but again, why? i tend to overlook those questions, though, because i like their little family :). i just wish we'd see rachel and ella more often.

i'm so glad they have been avoiding the explicit romance! when peter first appears in the pilot, i thought, oh great, here is the instant!romance for olivia. i'm glad it hasn't been quite so instant. by now, i feel there is an actual basis for a possible romantic relationship, but i don't think it'll actually happen because both peter and olivia have too much other stuff going on in their lives.

Date: 2010-05-15 08:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] coffeejunkii.livejournal.com
also, omg, that was totally the opera house they used in bsg, too, wasn't it?? i had a little freak out over that intertextual moment!

Date: 2010-05-16 10:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] beccatoria.livejournal.com
OMG I KNOW. It was a total brainfuck especially because it was so recognisable. AND YET AGAIN a place of mental merging and reality breakdowns...

Date: 2010-05-16 03:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] coffeejunkii.livejournal.com
that's what happens when everything is filmed in vancouver! makes me wonder if no one on the fringe production team is familiar with bsg because yeah, that place is pretty easy to recognize!

Date: 2010-05-15 10:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chaila.livejournal.com
I want to write reams of meta about how Olivia and Walter are incredible, but for some reason, perhaps because the show just hasn't been quite good enough, I have this niggling feeling that the house of cards holding up everything I like about this show will collapse any episode now.

That's a pretty solid explanation of how I feel about it too, though I'm a step behind you in investment due to this worry and corresponding inability to trust it. It's not good enough to make me care against my will (mostly because of the standalones), though I do continue to love both Olivia and Walter as characters. Relatedly, I'm also constantly scared about Walter too, because while they continue to have those wonderful moments of gentle, loving vulnerability where the show treats him with a lot of compassion, right after Olivia's righteous anger at his responsibility for all this, and that juxtaposition is like my favorite thing ever. And I'm almost as afraid that that will collapse as I am that they'll make Olivia in need of rescue. I think it's because it did so surprisingly well with both characters in most of season 1 and both are out of the ordinary--the efficient badass female cop who doesn't need a partner to back her up, the male lead as the older scientist, no longer mad, just ill and confused--that I'm afraid of the pull of the network and the masses? I've been burned in small ways with shows like this that you don't watch (In Plain Sight, for one), formula shows that I liked because they do interesting twisty things with gender and character who get orders to take away everything interesting about it to give it more "mainstream" appeal (i.e. focus on the procedural elements, focus on the UST, etc.), that I am simply unable to trust that that won't happen here in some way. Because it hasn't screwed up majorly yet, but there have certainly been hints about directions I wouldn't like.

However, I LOVE that Olivia is the man of the house. It's one of those things that I'm not sure I would have noticed as explicitly, but once you point it out it's everywhere. I think what you say about the, like, situational gender reversal is really spot-on and interesting. You're right, she's basically a stock character--the overworked cop with a family--and they just swapped her gender and made virtually no adjustments to the stock character to account for the gender swap. Nor does the camera treat her any differently, if that makes sense? She wears pants and functional shoes, she wears her hair back at work, she throws guys around, she has sex appeal because the actress is gorgeous but the show doesn't purposefully focus on the fact that she's a beautiful woman. She's not in the Buffy mold, of the beautiful girl who's sexy because she can kick your ass? She can kick your ass because she's awesome, and she just happens to also be sexy? It's circular, but the emphasis matters to me and I really, really like it.

When Rachel dumps Ella on Olivia in an emergency, Olivia panics somewhat and then dumps Ella on her assistant.

<3 <3 <3

I need a badass Olivia icon. Or better yet, an icon of Daddy and Ella.

(Annnnd now maybe I'll actually go catch up on the show. . .)
Edited Date: 2010-05-15 10:18 pm (UTC)

Date: 2010-05-15 11:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chaila.livejournal.com
Update: Alter-Broyles is SMOKING in his little black shirt!

Date: 2010-05-16 11:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] beccatoria.livejournal.com
I NEED ME A BROYLES ICON.

Date: 2010-05-16 11:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] beccatoria.livejournal.com
Yeah, I want to reply to you with long thinky thoughts but basically I think it boils down to the fact we're in complete agreement except I also have more affection for the ongoing myth arc stuff and therefore am getting slightly more dragged into it against my will, but again, not enough that I don't have any choice in the matter. But also I'm not sure how much of that is objective lack of quality and how much of that is being gunshy after BSG. Also your stories of procedurals getting screwed over like that is...not hope-inducing. Although they have at least managed to navigate two seasons without falling into that trap?

And also, I'm totally in agreement about what you say about the sexiness of her character. She is, cus she's gorgeous, and of course, I'm not trying to ignore the fact that the show almost certainly set out to cast a good looking woman in the role. But they don't make too much of that in terms of how they film it. Like you say, she's just there, doing her thing the way they'd film her if she was a (good looking) guy who'd gotten cast. It was interesting actually - I finally rewatched the pilot episode cus I got the DVDs the other day and as with many pilots, the filming style is a bit different. And it's quite enlightening to see the difference. While the camera doesn't overtly sexualise her even in the pilot, there's definitely more of that going on when she gets into the tank (specifically as compared to when she goes back into the tank later in S1; in both instances she's in functional underwear and has her hair tied back, but in the pilot she looks much more polished and sexualised; in the latter much more harried and disheveled). Also in the dreamscape in the pilot, they have her in this sexy dress thingy, and seriously I cannot think of another time in the entire series when she's in a dress. /ramble.

an icon of Daddy and Ella.

OOOOH LET ME KNOW IF YOU FIND ONE! <3

Date: 2010-05-17 12:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chaila.livejournal.com
So I finally actually watched the whole ep and OLIVIA WAS SO ELLA'S DAD. Like, dude, that has to be intentional, yes? I mean, I know part of it was showing how Olivia thinks she's about to die with the necklace and the hug, but that scene with Rachel especially had such "big strong provider" overtones.

Damn show, doing two or three character things every ep that I ADORE (Walter's cry, and he said it only to Olivia, awwwwww) and yet not otherwise allowing me to trust it. :/

Date: 2010-05-17 01:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] beccatoria.livejournal.com
OMGS I KNOW, RIGHT?! Except I'll be honest that scene also made me think, fuck, they're gonna kill Olivia aren't they, or why else would there be this epic goodbye scene? ARGH.

Date: 2010-05-17 01:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com
LOL, agreed.

Olivia is so fantastic. I even found a vid song for her, which I will make when I actually have time.

Date: 2010-05-17 05:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] beccatoria.livejournal.com
She is fantastic! Also OMGZ VIDDING. Your two Fringe vid(lets) so far have been to die for so I can't wait to see what you do with this when you get around to it. I have a sekrit Olivia song in mind too, you know, when I'm done kicking chaila's ass in VIDWAR. ;)

Date: 2010-05-17 10:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com
She is so badass. I must know your song because I secretly hope it's not the same one as mine.

Date: 2010-05-17 11:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] beccatoria.livejournal.com
I told ya on twitter. ;)

Date: 2010-08-28 01:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kassrachel.livejournal.com
Here via a mention in [livejournal.com profile] kiki_miserychic's journal and wanted to say: YES! So true! I love the way Olivia gets to be the man of the house and Peter is the damsel in distress who gets rescued. They're both incredibly awesome, but often not in the ways one would expect. &hearts &hearts &hearts

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