beccatoria: (olivia can kill you with her brain)
[personal profile] beccatoria
So I was looking for something in Fringe S1 cus I only half paid attention to parts of that and accidentally found two totally different things that nonetheless I feel the urge to inflict on my overwhelmingly non-Fringe-watching flist. :)

1. I was wondering what Olivia's inherent Cortexiphan-related power was gonna be, except now I think that I got it a bit backwards. Looking at the three Cortexikids in the finale, each one of them got destructively "activated" by the ZFT. This I remembered. What I forgot is that it seems the activation is not blind activation of the subject's inherent abilities but rather a process that is designed to induce a specific response. This is best exemplified with the fire starter - the episode actually has at least one and maybe two other Cortexikids subjected to that experiment which makes them spontaneously combust, it's just that Olivia manages to save the last girl in time, ultimately allowing her to be rehabilitated into a pyrokineticist by Massive Dynamic. That suggests that had Olivia or Nick Lane or Cancer Guy been put through the same process the same thing would happen to them. We know less about Cancer Guy but we do know that he was approached while he already had cancer and then his power turned out to be cancer-related and we don't know much about Nick Lane but we know that his projecting abilities were all the more destructive because of his pre-existing mental health conditions. So I think I got it backwards and Cortexiphan allows a range of abilities based on perception as always stated, but also renders the subjects more susceptible to medical experiments designed to provide more outlandish abilities. We have, after all, seen the ZFT "weaponise" ordinary people in a similar vein to the Cortexikids, just with either less success or more fatality on the part of the subject.

2. SPEAKING OF ZFT. I really wish we hadn't just abandoned that whole plotline for a whole season. I do get that season one established "our" side's ZFT - the people on our side secretly preparing for the war of the universes in dodgy, horrible ways, while season two concentrated on "their" side - the shapeshifters sent through: their secret universe warriors. The ones the ZFT hopes the Cortexikids can stop. But there was that whole thing at the end of season one, where they found the ZFT manual and worked out that it was written by William Bell himself, just distributed by either accident or design without the chapter on ethics. Which okay, I could handle; someone else gets hold of his work, twists it or misunderstands it, and he's too busy on the other side trying to keep things calm, trying to help the other side's armies enough not to raise suspicion but not enough to actively help them? Except two things I wish had been clarified and I'm vaguely worried his "noble sacrifice" will take off the "unanswered questions" table:

(a) Season one also strongly implicates William Bell as funding ZFT. Now, writing a manuscript that they got hold of and misunderstood/misused is very different from actively funding an organisation as horrifying as that. One could argue that Bell may not have been entirely aware of the ZFT activities, but even if he'd been on the Other Side for a very long time indeed, we know he's getting messages from Nina. I find it hard to believe he'd be that out of touch with an organisation he's funding/ideologically inspired/believes is necessary/any of the above. Which begs the questions - why is he funding it if they're that eeeeeeeevil? Why doesn't he correct them if they're working from a version of his manuscript without the most important chapter? It doesn't add up.

(b) Okay, fine, so Walter asked Bell to remove parts of his brain, but I'm pretty sure that Walter didn't also ask Bell to store those parts of his brain that knew how to travel between universes in the minds of innocent people thus driving them insane. And it strongly implicates Bell as being the one who gave up that information to Newton, who we know works for Walternate. I suppose he could have been forced to, and that's why he then pulled Olivia over in a desperate attempt to balance the books, but I don't know.

I JUST SUSPECT SHENANIGANS IS ALL. I like the character, but even with his Spock-like sacrifice, I don't trust him or his altruism. There is a larger game afoot, that, given who wrote this show, may never be explained, or might come down to a giant red ball floating over Russia and lots of zombies.

Date: 2010-05-26 09:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] coffeejunkii.livejournal.com
i really hope they will pick up the ZFT storyline again, too. it seemed so important in s1! also, i thought walter had written the manifesto? because remember that scene in which he gets out that old typewriter of his and the misplaced z matches the one in the manifesto? i thought bell had only written the lost chapter on ethics. but maybe i'm remembering that wrong.

Date: 2010-05-26 10:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] beccatoria.livejournal.com
Yeah, me too. David Robert Jones was so interesting I was kind of disappointed they killed him off; I wanted to see him make Olivia pass test two! Though thinking about this again does remind me that in the context of Bell's apparent helping of the other side (probably in part coerced/not as extensive as it could have been) as explained in the S2 finale, it does make Jones' apparent desire to kill Bell (if we can take Nina's word for that, and Jones' behaviour does seem to imply it) more credible. I was always somewhat dubious of the straight-up story Nina told that Jones was jealous Bell never appreciated his abilities and fired him. He seemed too...religious in his convictions that were all based around Bell's writings (even if he did maybe remove the ethics chapter?). But if he thought Bell had abandoned the cause and was now working for the other side, he may have felt obligated to kill him.

Although that still doesn't explain why Bell was funding them. The idea that that was misinformation planted to discredit Bell seems...I don't know, overly convoluted since it was from a credible source and never referenced again to explain it was a lie. I STILL CALL SHENANIGANS!

Regarding the typewriter though, that was Bell's typewriter - Walter found it kicking around the lab and yes, surmised the manuscript was typed on it based on the elevation of the "y" key, but he clearly says it was Bell's typewriter. Which isn't to say that an interesting twist might not be that Walter wrote the manuscript on Bell's typewriter but can't remember it, but the working assumption, at least, is that the manuscript was written by Bell.

Date: 2010-05-26 10:33 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (Default)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
I want an episode where Olivia gets another birthday card, tracks down her father, and finishes the job.

Yeah, there are definitely going to be shenanigans.

Date: 2010-05-26 10:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] beccatoria.livejournal.com
OMFG me too. (Though it was her stepfather). I loooove that scene where she explains it all even though it's never been referenced since. It's just such an awesome microcosm of her entire character. I kid you not, one of the reasons I was skipping through S1 again was because I wanted to clip that scene and put it on YouTube because it's not on there yet (that I can find) and that SHOULD NOT BE.

Date: 2010-05-26 10:50 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (Default)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
I was already pretty much in love with Olivia after that time I hoped she'd take out a bunch of goons with a beaker and THEN SHE DID, but that scene pretty much sealed it.

Date: 2010-05-26 11:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chaila.livejournal.com
So I STILL haven't seen it, and yet am commenting anyway, as is my wont. So wait, are we supposed to believe that Bell was all noble and not doing anything nefarious because of his death? And, if so, may I ask, WHERE WAS NINA? Because I have always had half a hope that she was up to as much dubious shenanigans with Massive Dynamic as Bell was, rather than just being the messenger girl, and I'd love it if the ramifications of his being dead was that Nina is now the driver of the dubiousness and we find out she has been involved with it all along. Nina stole the ethics chapter! Nina selectively passed along information to Bell! Granted, I don't remember all the details from season 1, or know if we know how long she's been working with him, so I have no idea whether that's plausible. But it's fun to imagine Nina walking around being dubious and untrustworthy and ambiguous. And randomly kissing boys.

Date: 2010-05-27 12:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] beccatoria.livejournal.com
Waaaaatch iiiiiit! ;)

Okay, basically the answer to your question is a giant "I don't know!" because, well, it's unclear. Bell does sacrifice himself to allow them to go home again, and in that moment, I think that is a fairly noble act. But I have no idea if it signals the end of the debate on the motives and morals of Bell; I certainly hope it doesn't as said noble act doesn't really explain all the rest of the shit he either pulled or has been accused of pulling. He says some exonerating stuff if we believe him, but as I said, a lot of it either doesn't add up, or flat out doesn't address things we've been told about him, like funding ZFT or what he did with the bits of Walter's brain. It's all very vague along the lines of, "I only helped Walternate as much as I had to to maintain my cover". I do believe Bell is committed to "our" side winning. I don't believe his methods of assuring that are particularly benign or what the hell else he's been up to.

The relevant season one info is that Bell is on the other side in dubious levels of communication with Nina. An ex-ZFT member who due to the context of the episode is about as trustworthy as one of them will get, says Bell is funding ZFT. A ZFT leader, David Robert Jones, is working to get to the other side and attacks Nina, stealing part of her arm, to do so. He implies to Olivia before he dies that he is going to see William Bell and the tone of voice is arguably threatening and certainly indicative of some rivalry. Nina herself says that Bell would never fund a terrorist organisation and that this is all Big, Bad Jones' doing to try and get back at Bell for firing him years ago and not thinking he was a genius.

None of which I really think adds up. So your theory is entirely plausible. I certainly don't think Nina is entirely trustworthy, nor should she be, and she's been working with Bell for a really long time.

That said, I don't think Nina and ZFT are in cahoots because she genuinely seemed to fear for Bell's safety and, well, they shot her (though she has kevlar ribs or something so she was all right, mostly). Possibly this was a complex coverup - I certainly believe her capable of it - but equally, she controls Massive Dynamic: I'm sure she could have set up a surveillance-free meet.

I think the main reason I'm not jumping on your train of thought is that if I'm being pessimistic, I somewhat fear that Bell's part in this will get whitewashed as the Noble Man Trying To Save Us All and every dubious action will get pinned on the Powerful Bitch Who Tricked Our Noble Man, you know?

Nina has more consistently been characterised as rather hero-worshipping Bell. Certainly Walter seems to resent that, both taunting her that Bell isn't the great person she believes during the flashback episode and his imaginary version of her being in love with the Bell in the Television in the Noir Musical episode.

Which, in itself, is just another unfortunate sexist stereotype waiting to happen. But one I'd rather circumvent by giving her her own shady agenda. It's one of the reasons I love the "Don't Trust Sam Weiss" anagram thing so much, because Nina was the one who sent Olivia to Sam Weiss in the first place. I definitely think she's playing a game that even her kissing buddy Broyles doesn't entirely understand, and who knows if William did. But I don't specifically think that she's on the side of the ZFT or controlling them. I'm still more inclined to believe that was Bell himself, and Nina is simply guiding Massive Dynamic through current events with her own thoughts on how to fight the coming war and make the most money while doing so.

BUT YES. THE LACK OF ALTERNINA IS A GLARING ISSUE OF CONSISTENCY THAT I RATHER THINK MIGHT SIGNIFY SOMETHING. I REALLY WANT TO MEET HER.

(Also I shouldn't think this much this late at night/early in the morning...) ;)

Date: 2010-05-27 01:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chaila.livejournal.com

The relevant season one info is that Bell is on the other side in dubious levels of communication with Nina. An ex-ZFT member who due to the context of the episode is about as trustworthy as one of them will get, says Bell is funding ZFT. A ZFT leader, David Robert Jones, is working to get to the other side and attacks Nina, stealing part of her arm, to do so. He implies to Olivia before he dies that he is going to see William Bell and the tone of voice is arguably threatening and certainly indicative of some rivalry. Nina herself says that Bell would never fund a terrorist organisation and that this is all Big, Bad Jones' doing to try and get back at Bell for firing him years ago and not thinking he was a genius.


I. . . barely remember any of this. I am a deficient casual viewer. Anyway I am totes on board with your theory. I don't need Nina to be Evil, I just want to see her be IN CHARGE OF SOME SHIT and Making Stuff Happen on her own. I don't know if the show intends to realize the potential for awesome of Nina and Broyles knowing more than they let on, about each other and about Bell, and just generally. I do kind of hope that we see that she had an agenda apart from Bell's in some way, because the whole messenger/hero worship thing was just annoying. Ugh there's no way she wasn't in love with Bell, is there?
Edited Date: 2010-05-27 02:40 am (UTC)

Date: 2010-05-27 07:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] beccatoria.livejournal.com
Ha, dude, I barely remembered any of this stuff EITHER before I went looking for a scene I only half-remembered towards the end of season one and instead found all these scenes and was like...whuh? That happened?

As to Nina being in love with Bell, I don't know - mostly I think at the moment we can write that off as Walter's juvenile jealousy over Bell and his fame and success and his personal rather petty feelings about Nina. The only place it's really made explicit is in the Noir Musical episode where everyone is a weird inversion of themselves to show what Walter really thinks of them. So I don't know that the Nina in that episode is Nina so much as Walter being upset with Nina.

Date: 2010-05-27 11:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chaila.livejournal.com
Also, I promise to stop being such a downer about Fringe. I swear! STARTING NOW!

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