Random Thoughts about BSG (Webisode and Non-Webisode!)

[beccatoria]

I know it's Christmas Eve/Christmas Day (depending on time zones) so no one will be around. But on the offchance that you are online and bored:

Can anyone answer the following questions?

- In the latest webisode, even though it will cost them a small amount of precious air, they need to dump the body so that it doesn't start contaminating their atmosphere with methane, etc. I have no understanding of biology but that sounds good and plausible (even if I suspect it's setting up someone to die of a faulty pressure suit). But, why not just put the body in a spacesuit? I mean, it's airtight, right? Sure it'd be kinda creepy having a dead body sat there, but they wouldn't lose any air. Which seemed to be worrying them.

- Why is there no toilet in Athena/Caprica's cell? I mean, it's built to be like, frakking indestructible and mostly they wouldn't even take Athena out of it without a dog collar and a million chains and a whole PLATOON of marines. Yet they build a cell where they're going to have to let her out several times a day to use the bathroom?

- Is abortion still illegal in the Fleet? It was the platform Baltar used to launch his campaign but that got completely subsumed by the New Caprican issue. I think it would be darkly wonderful if he just never did anything about the abortion issue and it's still illegal. That would just sum up Baltar. I'm also morbidly disappointed we never saw the fallout of that executive order. Like, you know, all the dead women.

- Not so much a question as an observation. I think I'm far too attached to this show because when I discover people I really respect and love reading the work of think that BSG squandered its potential and became a confused mess, it makes me really, really sad. Like someone just kicked my puppy, and now the only sound I want to make is meep sad. I think because I find it so wonderful and the idea that there's someone out there who doesn't see that and who I now couldn't hypothetically have awesome discussions about it with makes me all...wibbly. Not like angry or anything. People can have their own opinions and lord knows that I think a bunch of shows other people have tried to assure me are genius are actually complete and utter bollocks, so this is just the flip side of that. But...dude. I'm so sad. Which is a little "sad". :(

- The final cylon. I'm almost resigned to disappointment. I hope to the lords of kobol and the cylon god that the stupid "it's one of these five!" list that SciFi Portal released is bogus because dude, yuck. And damn, what is this fucking ridiculous obsession people have with making it Gaeta? I apologise if anyone on my flist is someone who wants it to be Gaeta but it seems to my very biased eyes that it's this really weird obsession that started in S1 because he liked computers and back when being a cylon was about shock factor and back when yet another third string character would be a shock maybe he would have been a good choice. But now?

The final cylon can't just be a "by the way, it's this guy," reveal. It has to be bigger than that. It has to answer the question of why that person didn't join the other four. Either because s/he's more important or different or already knew his/her identity? Whatever. It can't just be Gaeta/Dualla/Zarek/Whoever unless there's a freaking massive reveal that goes along with that that turns everything we know about them on their heads. And that in itself would be difficult to pull of without it feeling, well, lame.

I genuinely want the writers' reassurance that it'll affect the way we rewatch the series to mean something more than, "OMG maybe in that instant when Gaeta let the cylon virus onto the Galactica it WASN'T AN ACCIDENT!"

So. My choices for Final Five Reveals that Won't Suck are:

- Laura Roslin
- One of Kara Thrace's parents, preferably her father even though I want the final cylon to be a girl.
- Maybe they could pull off Kendra Shaw
- A new character

The other tricky issue is that if it's a shock to the character who is revealed to be the fifth, then it'll be tricky not to run over the ground we already covered with the crises experienced by the four. Which makes me think it'd be better to cast the Fifth as cognizant of his/her nature. Although in the Roslin situation, I'd recant that because I think the manner in which her character would handle the reveal and the huge part of the show she represents would warrant something of a retread, because it would be different enough to be compelling.

Comments

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

The final cylon at this point almost *has* to be Laura Roslin. Everything else would just make viewers go 'Meh'.

Plus I think Roslin is the only one it could be that wouldn't suddenly turn the w hole show into a contradictory mess.

Although I suppose it is possible they could introduce a major new character in the final season, and have the story arc being about them being the final cylon.

Maybe they'll get Original!Starbuck back to play him.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with you about Roslin, but I also don't think the show will go there. Partly because I don't understand why the show has bought into the Adama/Roslin romance (which I admit to being unfairly prejudiced against) and it makes me think that their endgame for her is different. Even though actually that reveal would make the relationship more interesting. It comes down to me being worried that even though they clearly see her as the same person I do, they see her arc differently? Plus there was that comment from RDM that the final cylon wasn't in the Last Supper picture and Roslin is. Although RDM also said that Starbuck was dead for real which turned out to be bullshit, or at best, half true if she came back from actual death or is "something else" now.

I honestly think that making it Starbuck's father wouldn't contradict anything and would help explain Starbuck's specialness and why he was playing Philip Glass but possibly I should just get over the fact they used my favourite composer and not respond by writing (currently, and currently unfinished) 15,000+ word stories I'll probably never post about why that should be the case. :headdesk:

ALSO FINALLY NO! NO I SAY TO DIRK BENEDICT GETTING ANYWHERE NEAR THIS SHOW! He's been too gross and insulting about it for me to want to enjoy him in it or reward him by giving him an important role. I would just...I'd cry.

(Oh god. What if they gave me everything I wanted in the worst possible way: Dirk Benedict AS Starbuck's father the final cylon. *CRIES*)

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

I didn't know Dirk Benedict had been saying mean things about the show. I assume he found it a bit too dark and depressing?

Which, I mean. It is, its a fundementally very depressing tv show.

I expect a lot of smoke-screens about the identity of the last cylon, probably intended to make us think it won't be Laura, because I'm quite sure most viewers now think it will be Laura, which means it won't be a surprise. Unless they start trying to double-bluff us...

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

He wrote an article for Dreamwatch years ago now; right after the series started, that claimed the problem was that it was too dark and depressing, but really was just a front for him to bitch about the fact he's no longer allowed to slap office girls on the ass.

http://www.dirkbenedictcentral.com/home/articles-readarticle.php?nid=5

Highlights include:

There was a time – I know I was there – when men were men, women were women and sometimes a cigar was just a good smoke. But 40 years of feminism have taken their toll. The war against masculinity has been won. Everything has turned into its opposite, so that what was once flirting and smoking is now sexual harassment and criminal. And everyone is more lonely and miserable as a result.

and

For the re-imagined terrorists (Cylons) are not mechanical robots void of soul, of sexuality, but rather humanoid six-foot-tall former lingerie models who f**k you to death. (Poor old Starbuck, you were imagined to early. Think of the fun you could have had `fighting' with these thong-clad aliens! In the spirit of such soft-core sci-fi porn I think a more re-imaginative title would have been F**cked by A Cylon. (Apologies to Touched by An Angel.)

and

Women are from Venus. Men are from Mars. Hamlet does not scan as Hamletta. Nor does Han Solo as Han Sally. Faceman is not the same as Facewoman. Nor does a Stardoe a Starbuck make. Men hand out cigars. Women `hand out' babies. And thus the world, for thousands of years, has gone round.

He is a bitter, bitter old man.

And yeah, it was four years ago, but it still makes me twitchy and angry. *sigh*

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

Oh lord, how amazing. what a dinosaur. He does seem to have gone insane. Ah well. Pretty much a certainty that he'll never appaer in BSG though. :)

Merry christmas!

[nicole-anell.livejournal.com]

I'm also morbidly disappointed we never saw the fallout of that executive order. Like, you know, all the dead women.
IA. Although I like to think Cottle's still giving abortions anyway. (Actually I like to think that Baltar did make good on his pro-choiceness, and the human race didn't dieeeee, and Roslin didn't bother reversing it again.) But seriously, I'm annoyed that it never came up again because it feels like "Well! We did the abortion episode. Job well done, guys." *washes hands of entire issue*

For the "sad" part, oh lord YES. For me what hurts a lot is when people I respect think the show has gone downhill for the SAME REASONS that I love it.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Cottle totally needs to be. I imagine Cottle bucks the system. I don't imagine the executive order prevented abortions that were medically necessary to save the mother; I bet Cottle fakes the paperwork.

I like to think that the order got reversed too if only because then it was only ever in effect very briefly and it explains why we never saw any fallout from it.

But it does uncomfortably smack of "Yup, go us! Now we never have to go near that topic again!"

For me what hurts a lot is when people I respect think the show has gone downhill for the SAME REASONS that I love it.

YES! YES, EXACTLY THIS! Cus, I handle it so much better if they just really hate the few parts I don't think are great. Or if the whole thing just isn't their style. But when they start pointing to all the things I think they changed about the show that were genius as the glaring mistakes the writers made I'm like, NOOOOOO! And commence wailing. :(

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

This fandom is still all shiny and new to me (having only started watching the show back in March), to the point that I have a hard time understanding people who say s3 and s4 are less than s1 and s2. I understand intellectually how the show changed, but I love it so much I kind of feel like you can't question that--like it's just the way the show NEEDS to be.

God knows I can be a critical bastard on other shows, but this one...I have kind of a naive fangirl-ish love for it, flaws and all. So yes, I also feel really sad when I read posts from people who have fallen out of love with it. Or--and this is really selfish I admit--when the most excellent fanfic writers never write for this fandom anymore. Sniff. I hope some will return to see the conclusion and that we will all be so happy with the way it ends.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

I can't imagine how amazing it must have been to watch the whole run straight through. I'm holding off on an epic rewatch until after the end of the series, but it's gonna be awesome.

And yes, I really feel that the show organically developed into this direction.

I think my problem is that even though I'm aware there must be a naivety to my fangirl love, because I do occasionally see flaws or get pissy about the handling of things, I have this illusion that I'm reasonably objective and it just is this damn awesome. Which is why it's worse when people I respect disagree with me. :(

I'm mostly spared your fanfic angst (to be honest, I didn't even know that excellent fanfic writers had abandoned the show!) because I don't read much fanfic unless it's specifically recced to me, but I feel your pain there. I always wish there were more BSG vids. Though to be honest, we do have a lot of really good BSG vidders so this is just me being selfish.

[pirateygoodness.livejournal.com]

But, why not just put the body in a spacesuit?

Well, if it produces gaseous environmental contaminants, those are going to fill up the suit and create pressure, meaning eventually it would inflate and could theoretically explode if they're there for long enough or someone trips and falls on it.

Also, I'm not sure how those suits work, but I assume that in addition to providing oxygen, they at some point vent CO2, meaning they would be pressurized but not necessarily airtight, so the methane and such might leak out anyway.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Aah, thank you. I'm much more on board with the plan now. I mean, I did think about the exploding issue, but I wasn't sure how much gas a body produces versus how much air they had left (about 20 hours). But...I know jack shit about this stuff.

Also a very compelling argument you make is the whole pressurized vs airtight thing. If it has an automatic equalizing system (which would make sense) then they'd be screwed anyway.

[asta77.livejournal.com]

I watched the fourth webisode last night and my only thought was, "Are they serious?" I know Jamie was disappointed not to be able to direct some of them as was originally planned, but I think they are crap and I'm glad he's not associated with them. Jane Espenson is a very talented writer, but, wow, is she a bad fit for this series. The murder mystery is laughable. Worse than 'Black Market' and I didn't think that is possible!

I'm realizing as the show is drawing to a close just how attached to it I have become. I can safely say it's my One True Show, at least for the time being. And I see people who have abandoned the show all together or are begrudgingly watching or constantly critical and, while it is flawed, I still find it to be one of the best things to ever appear on TV. As I'm rewatching I'm realizing you have to judge it as a whole and the good far outweighs the bad (though I am about to embark on the Black Market/Scar/Sacrifice period and not much looking forward to it). Ron Moore made mistakes, he dropped the ball on Lee's character and left subplots unresolved, but I can't imagine not having BSG, good and bad, in my life. All of which is to say, I totally understand how disheartening is to read people disparage what the show has become or not enjoy Season 4.0 which, for the most part, I've loved. I'm pretty critical of what I watch, but I sometimes think people become too critical.

As far as the final Cylon, we've talked about it and I don't want to go into spoiler territory here so I'll stick to my non-spoilery thoughts. Gaeta seems like a likely candidate, especially since he's starring in the webisodes, but is he too obvious? I actually think Zarek could be an interesting choice. This is a man who has essentially been fighting humanity since his youth and trying to undermine the system from within. He'd also provide an interesting contrast to Tigh who has spent his life fighting for the colonies and happy to maintain the status quo.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Meh, I'm not so irritated with the webisodes. I actually think they're marginally better than last year's in terms of acting and storyline. But to be fair, last year's weren't great either. The murder mystery thing is maybe a little blah, but I also don't know who did it and am vaguely interested in that.

Mostly I just think that webisodes suffer rather than benefit from the few-minutes format and the lack of budget is really obvious.

I'm kind of resigned to the fact that like last year they'll be fairly bland and boring with a few interesting issues raised if we're lucky. I'm already a little disappointed that the Eight who knew Gaeta was secretly helping them because I'd hoped that they were going to explore the fact that even though these cylons are on your side now, they are the same guys who (even if it was with good intentions) oppressed the fuck out of you on New Caprica.

It's really gratifying to hear you echo my sentiments. I don't think everything that BSG ever put together was fabulous by any means. I mean, dude, BLACK MARKET. And there are whole swathes of issues I think they've messed up. But like you say, it's so much better than most everything else on TV, and it deals with so many unusual topics so well there's just a part of my brain that doesn't understand the desire to criticise it.

But I'm sure that many, for instance, Whedonfans would think the same of my snark about Dr Horrible.

Re: the final cylon, I think Gaeta is too obvious and also if they make him a cylon they'll have the uncomfortable double-"coming out" of the closet. They already made their lesbian evil, and even though cylon =/= evil now, it's still something I think would be...not awesome in terms of subtext. Also as I said, I think that "Oh, btw, it's this person," and having it be a reveal of the same nature as the final four would be a big let down.

Zarek would be better. But at this point, I care less about shock value and more about it making sense. And really, revealing anyone as the final cylon is probably going to be a disappointment to me if that reveal doesn't also include a very compelling reason why they didn't know until now/why we as viewers didn't know this about them if the character knew.

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

Putting Pilot 8 in a space suit is logical. BSG webisodes are not bound by such things. Maybe they're thinking of the extra space in the ship as well.

I'm with you on the sad thing.

In the beginning I thought it was Gaeta. I don't think it will be now because it's too built up and it's almost like a gimme. As much as I would have liked it to be him, I don't anymore. On that same token I don't want it to be Laura Roslin. To me, it would feel like a cop out.

I think they'll be a huge reveal of who the last cylon is and then they'll do a sequence where they go back to show stuff all the way from the pilot or something. There are a few little things to clear up, like who sent that original message to the fleet saying that there are 12 cylon models.

I hope that the final cylon is aware of their own existance. Like you said, it would be a retread if they were another sleeper.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Fortunately pirateygoodness has explained to me some things that make me more okay with spacing Pilot 8.

It's fascinating to me that you don't want it to be Laura! I guess I understand you thinking it'd be a cop out. My reasons for wanting it to be her mainly are to do with not wanting it to resonate only for shock value but wanting it to make sense and I feel she's the established character for whom it would make the most sense. Both because of her role in the cycle of time and prophecy which the Cylon seem to have such ties to, and because it would be the most interesting conflict since she's been the most dedicated fighter for humanity.

I think that my feeling is that if it's going to be a retread and the final model isn't aware of their origins, then it really has to be a HUGE character so we're willing to overlook that. Someone like Laura.

Otherwise they have to know in which case, it's going to be nearly impossible to avoid making the audience feel cheated for not knowing. It's just jerking our chains.

Which is why I really want it to be a new character but one that's still significant due i.e. Starbuck's parent.

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

I read that and it does make it a bit better. After listening to the audio commentary, it seems like there was a storyline in the beginning that would have been interesting. I say that not having seen all of the webisodes, so it's not my final judgement on them.

I'm starting to think it will be a character like Starbuck's father or some such. With the Caprica series, it seems like a smart business move to be able to have a sleeper Cylon in the new series. The audience knows they're Cylon, but the cast doesn't.

One of my issues with Laura being the Final Cylon is nearly the same reason you want her to be. I like Laura tied to the prophecy as a human, not necessarily as Cylon. They've toyed with Laura being the last one, with the 3, so it would kind of annoy me.

Tigh, Tyrol, and Anders led the Resistance on New Caprica. Having Laura be such a dedicated fighter for humanity would feel stale if she were the final one.

I have ideas, but no real guess as to who it is. I like being in for the ride. Maybe it's a character that's already dead. For the first 2 seasons I was convinced Zak Adama was Cylon. I don't really think so now because it would be a bitch to get him back. I still harbor the hope that it's Billy.

[beerbad.livejournal.com]

Personally, I'm STILL pissed off at them for not just keeping all 12 cylon models as "normal" skin-job cylons. I hated the idea that there are these five "special" cylons, and I hate it even more that there is an even SPECIALER 12th/5th cylon. Fucking ridiculous. I also feel like this whole thing has created lots of unnecessary retcon, especially when rewatching the earlier seasons. UGH.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Well I was a bit confused by that at first too. Now I'm cool with it because I can imagine ways in which having these other sorts of Cylon can be explained in a cool way. I see your point. But I also feel like the only way they can make waiting to reveal the final one in this fashion not a massive piss-take of the viewers is to make them super-super special.

I don't want it to be a Magical Uber Model so much as like...the actual Cylon God or the puppet master who chose to keep their existence secret or something?

But again I think that role is far better suited to an outsider and nearly new character rather than an established character. You kind of HAVE to either go with the BIGGEST PERSON POSSIBLE (i.e. Laura) or someone we've never seen before.

[(Anonymous)]

Seeing Dirk Benedict in Galactica would make me the happiest man in the world, well for a few hours at least. He is a tv sci fi god, only dwarfed by Gil Gerard!

Oh and i hope you and ya guy have a wonderful Christmas.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

EEEEW! BEGONE FROM MY LJ, HEATHEN! WE DO NOT TOLERATE SPEAKING WELL OF DIRK BENEDICT AND HIS BITTER CHAUVANISTIC CRAP HERE!

FIE, I SAY! A POX ON YOU AND ALL THAT!

[madenglishbloke.livejournal.com]

i suppose dirk benedicts chauvanism would be a good match for gil gerards religious zealotry - lets not forget what he did to buck rogers S2...

[nomoreanonymous.livejournal.com]

Buck and and Starbuck were my childhood heroes though
:*(

Even if they were just watered down versions of Han Solo.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

*covers eyes as hasn't got around to the webisodes yet*

- In the latest webisode, even though it will cost them a small amount of precious air, they need to dump the body so that it doesn't start contaminating their atmosphere with methane, etc. I have no understanding of biology but that sounds good and plausible (even if I suspect it's setting up someone to die of a faulty pressure suit). But, why not just put the body in a spacesuit? I mean, it's airtight, right? Sure it'd be kinda creepy having a dead body sat there, but they wouldn't lose any air. Which seemed to be worrying them.

My professional opinion is yes, that would suffice. Maybe they need the suit for something else?

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Aaah! Sorry, didn't mean to potentially spoil you!

But also, pirateygoodness above has given me an explanation that satisfies me as to why it might not be the best idea. Yay for science!

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

Don't worry! Living in Canada with limited cable access has made me *very* good at avoiding spoilers for BSG! I just try to keep it to a minimum...and I don't really care so much about the webisodes. :)

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU TOO! :D

[emmiere.livejournal.com]

Kicked my puppy is a really good description of the way I feel too when someone I know brushes off BSG, or thinks that the show has gone downhill. We are watching different shows, evidently. Or I am way too invested, which also seems to be true.

And, word on the final Cylon, that particular revelation is probably the thing I'm looking forward to least. Like, to the point where I wish I could do some kind of rewinding and make it so that there was no final Cylon. When we got the Final Four, I just rolled with it, since I could see a ton of ways that this could be interesting, even if I had no clue where they were going with it. And it has been so far, at least to me. But, I sort of think that they've used up their gotcha! moments on Cylon reveals. There's just nothing interesting about going back and reevaluating yet another character's actions throughout the series to me.

The webisodes are just making me sad, since they're proof that I won't automatically love something just because it's BSG.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

*revels in her over-investment* At least we are not alone! *clings*

At least I believe that the reveal will occur early in the season so if it's a let down there'll be most of a half season to get over it?

I don't hate the webisodes, I just don't love them. But that's par for the course considering my response to the previous set. I just don't think webisodes are that great in general even though I love the idea. They occasionally raise interesting questions but can't really explore them and suffer from the low production values and constraints of filming, I think. :(

[emmiere.livejournal.com]

*Nods* I was tired of being all alone in my crazy over-investment. And behold! I find that there are others out there more than happy to encourage me in this. So, yay!

I haven't completely resigned myself to disappointment just yet, it's BSG after all. It doesn't let me down completely too often. I'm still holding out for Zarek a bit, but I could go with Laura.

The webisodes are hard for me to get worked up over, except for vaguely wondering why they bothered. The only really disappointing thing for me is getting a future glimpse past the point that the show's going to open the next episode on. It's like, I could have predicted that Tigh would still be an officer (it's Adama, after all), but I didn't really want to know yet. I like my possibilities to be all shiny and open. Who knows though, I may like them more after the show actually begins, like I did the first set. I think not catching those while they were airing made me appreciate them more when I could see how they were meant to fit.

Gosh, I'm wordy. Apparently, I do have an opinion. :D

[madenglishbloke.livejournal.com]

roslin would be the most obvious way of revealing the final model - and probably the easiest to write, seeing as theyve spent a fair amount of time building up to that - which makes me suspect that they wont actually go down that path.
i still say that galactica herself is the final model though - it makes far more sense, at least to me.

having said that, id put money on either lorne green or barry van dyke... ;)