BSG: No Exit Podcast Awesome

[beccatoria]

So, stepping on asta77's toes I went ahead and actually listened to the No Exit podcast in hope of getting like, clues about all those crazed mysteries in the episode.


So apparently this was a monologue written by Ron Moore for Ellen Tigh while she was doing Thai Chi with Boomer or something that he thinks may actually have been filmed (and therefore may show up in deleted scenes), but that ultimately didn't make it into any cuts of the episode.

He reads out the monologue and I am gonna transcribe it here CUS:

Self-awareness is not confined to the 'real world.' In theatre fictional characters are sometimes given a form of self-awareness. This is called breaking the fourth wall. The device is a form of metafiction, allowing characters to address the audience directly and comment on the narrative in which they themselves are participants. In doing so the characters transcend their fictive nature and enter into a dialectical relationship with the viewer, with each side seeking to persuade the other of the innate truth of their reality.

But does a character actually exist? Does it have form and shape beyond the page on which it is written? Can it ever truly break the fourth wall and address the unseen, undreamt of audience that watches its every move from the safety beyond the footlights?

The Lords of Kobol once felt that man could never break the fourth wall; could never look upon the gods with understanding and grasp the divine nature of life. They believed this until one day man stole their fire and created the first cylons the first artificial life.

And then man, in his arrogance, believed cylons could never break the fourth wall. And man believed that right up until the moment the first centurions rebelled and then the great exodus from paradise began. You see Boomer, we are not finite creations, we have the ability to evolve, you have so much more potential.

RDM goes on to acknowledge that while he likes the speech it's very long and "written", but yeah.

I think that's kind of awesome.


Therefore I'm kind of pissed that he had to seriously harsh my squee by saying: "Stay tuned for what happens with Caprica and her baby and Saul Tigh. Let's just say it's not gonna be that happy."

...

Since Caprica herself would probably qualify any ending at all that didn't end up with the kid dead as "happy"...

*cries*

I'm trying to console myself with the notion that it would be silly to make a mutant flipper fetus and kill it before it sees the light of sickbay, but at the same time, the trailer for next week really isn't sending me into any kind of relieved belief that "not happy" could refer to Ellen's return either.

*cries moar like an emo shipper*

ETA: Found a recent interview with Tricia Helfer which makes me feel somewhat less concerned cus apparently she's "very happy" with where Caprica Six is left at the end of the series sooo...I'm maybe slightly less panicked. Or at least more hopeful that there'd be payoff or something. I dunno. I'LL TAKE WHATEVER I CAN GET.

Comments

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

I'm...kinda glad they cut that speech. I would have found it very odd/off-putting in context. Entirely too "written" as he says.

Even though I love this particular idea and have explored it in posts myself with regards to how we defend/justify our favorite characters and not-so-favorite characters actions in relation to the way they are written and what is intended by their creators.

But does a character actually exist? Does it have form and shape beyond the page on which it is written? Can it ever truly break the fourth wall and address the unseen, undreamt of audience that watches its every move from the safety beyond the footlights?

I'm kind of glad the show didn't go there though.

[pellucid.livejournal.com]

Oh, how meta! I think I'm glad it got cut, though. It's a little too fourth wall-breaking itself, and a little too "let us tell you what this means" in a way that precludes ambiguity. It does, I suppose, answer my questions about Kobol and humans creating the Cylons (v. 1.0) there--and I'm not sure how I feel about that info being (at least at the moment) extra-textual. Extra-textual commentary gives me such angst about intention!

Nevertheless, I do like the idea, and I think it nicely outlines the ways in which Cylons and humans are both alike and different, and that's a distinction that the characters themselves are necessarily struggling with right now. And the theatrical metaphor is apt, in terms of the Greek drama thing (I still think all of BSG is conforming in some important ways to the generic tropes of classical tragedy), in terms of the importance of theatre or specifically opera within the show, in terms of the show's own preoccupation with the way its own story is told (all the dramatic irony, etc.). Good stuff, if a little heavy-handed.

For some reason I'm not nearly getting the "flipper in immediate danger" vibes that you are. Maybe I'm deluding myself? I also haven't seen the trailer for next week. I mean, they were way too happy this week for there not to be DOOM in their probably immediate future, but I'm not sure DOOM necessarily spells dead flipper rather than just...lots of angst and awkwardness when Ellen gets back? *hopes for doom that is not too doomful, if such a thing is possible*

[metatxt.livejournal.com]

I LOVE THAT SPEECH SO MUCH. and yes it's "WRITTEN" but that's what makes it a meta-meta-speech. There is something supremely awesome about breaking the fourth wall by TALKING about the fourth wall, and in the context of cylonicity and the cycles of existence, it's just. PLZ LET THEM HAVE FILMED IT.

Cuz here's the thing: that episode had insane amounts of exposition presented in such a way that already drew attention to the fact that the show is scripted. So, if you're going to go there, go all the way!

And besides the fact I really enjoy Boomer/Ellen in the context of this latest arc, I feel like an additional Boomer/Ellen scene would have added given more context to Cavil/Ellen craziness simply by exploring a different Ellen/one-of-her-creations relationship. Of course, it could be that I just DESPERATELY MISS WOMEN TALKING TO EACH OTHER ON MY SHOW.

:( If they hurt Flipper, or Caprica, oh there will be WORDS.

Maybe Ellen will have angst about Flipper's existence because of her own daughter w/Daniel, KARA THRACE? *trying to find a possibly not terrible solution*

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

I totally dig that speech.

[asta77.livejournal.com]

I was going to say, "You bitca!" ;p, but, hey, I'm just going to copy and paste your transcription when I do my recap (with credit, of course) because I am lazy. :)

I had a bad feeling about the baby. But, I really hope we are both wrong and something else is going to happen that we can't see yet.

[daybreak777.livejournal.com]

Watch Ishay. That's all I'm saying. There are so many loose cannons on that ship.

I never had a good feeling about the baby. Why? Because Caprica suffers so much, it's like her lot in life. But I hope it lives though, so it doesn't harm your love for the show. I know how that goes especially at this late date.

Keep fingers crossed!

[frolicndetour.livejournal.com]

Noo, they can't kill a baby, can they? *remembers what show she's watching* *remembers all the plans Ron had for killing off Hera in the womb* Dammit! But... maybe he wouldn't have alluded to it if they were really going to do it? Hmm. Oh show, we believe that you're dark and gritty, you don't have to try so hard to impress us, really.

Eh, I don't watch the trailers but I think it's very possible he's just referring to the return of Ellen and how that'll complicate things. I feel like again and again I've heard Ron or one of the other writers attempt to sell some upcoming development as "shocking" or "unexpected" when it turns out to be pretty much exactly what everyone was expecting.*hopes*

That speech is pretty awesome, if, yeah, pretty 4th-wall breaking itself. I <3 philosopher Ellen so much.

[chaila.livejournal.com]

OOH SHINY SHINY SPEECH. The theatrical metaphor!!! Creator: creation :: writer : character!!! It's so obvious but I've never thought about it at all. I adore the comparison between characters breaking the fourth wall and creation preempting its creators. It's sort of breaking my brain in the most delicious way. The creators (first, apparently the Lords of Kobol w/r/t the humans, then the human w/r/t the Cylons, then the Final Five w/r/t to the other models?) think their creation cannot possibly be aware that they are merely characters in the creators' play, until the characters break the fourth wall, proving that they ARE aware of the scripted nature of their existence, and do something unscripted.

The Final Five tried to give the other 7/8 models free will and to thereby break the script/cycle. Because the Final Five seemed to believe that you should give your robots free will or they'll eventually break the fourth wall you've tried to maintain and destroy you. But the moral of Cavil vis-a-vis the Final Five seems to be: if you give your robots free will, they'll destroy you anyway. Which seems to indicate that maybe the cycle CAN'T be broken, because you're damned if you script it, and you're damned if you don't; either way, your children will rebel. And if the end result is unavoidable, it's ALL scripted, it's ALL theater, the fourth wall being broken is part of a different script (and thus life is pointless and truly absurd--is it a coincidence that theatre of the absurd is a genre? :D). And we are naive/arrogant for thinking we can ever really be aware of our role in the crazy, crazy universe, because maybe it's always just too much bigger than us; is there always a bigger script of which we are unaware?

And yet I want there to be a way to escape the script/repetition of the cycle! Can the creators' acknowledgement of responsibility do it? Can free will + self-awareness + responsibility do it? So far I don't think anyone has humbled themselves enough to combine all three. If the humans can acknowledge responsibility for their part in the story, and the FF for theirs, and everyone is made aware of just how they are all relate to one another, can they break the violent cycle? *goes to take a brain nap*

Didn't mean to ramble all over you, but I'm done now. Except: Who/what were the Lords of Kobol and WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM ON KOBOL????

[emmiere.livejournal.com]

Hmm, that'd be such a lovely thing to see in a deleted scene, if distracting to see in the actual aired cut. It'll be fascinating though to see how much of this underlies the final run of episodes.

But more importantly (to my brain): OH, RON MOORE, NO! Why must you torture them more? Ishay is scary, but I'm almost more afraid of the miscarriage possibility, because it will break my heart without giving me anyone on the show to direct my rage on. At least with Ishay she'd get to use the stilettos. *whimper*

[nightxade.livejournal.com]

Maybe the baby develops asthma because of Cottle's smoking around Caprica. Or perhaps a peanut allergy?