BSG: Islanded in a Stream of Stars (Actual Discussion Edition)

[beccatoria]

So like...for the first time I was kind of pissed off that nothing happened. Which is a ridiculous complaint considering lots of stuff happened. But really, NOTHING HAPPENED!

So I'm still stuck with every single one of my neurotic worries about the show's endgame that I had in A Disquiet Follows My Soul, and there wasn't anything like awesome nihilism or minor character uprisings or political plots or great characteristion or crazy revelations to distract me like there usually are.

Dammit, I'm tired!

So basically I thought this was a pretty decent episode all told. You know, when ignoring my OMG TELL ME NOW issues.

Adama was a complete fucking jackass who is still incapable about making anything not about him. Cus for real, I've never had a particular problem with Tahmoh Penikett and his acting; he's good enough for the role and he does well in it, but this is the first time I've been really impressed by him. That scene with Adama was painful. Helo is just so hopeful, because that's all he's got, because if he doesn't hope, he will fall down on the floor and not get up again. And then Adama tells him to shut up and follow orders and he apologises to him. Because the poor boy is just so desperate and confused. He's sorry for everything and anything and would agree to anything if he can just get that raptor. Hope is all that's keeping him standing even though he doesn't have any; not really.

I'm not sure what they're doing with Boomer. I liked her interactions with Hera and the confirmation that basically she's just so frakked. She doesn't love Cavil; she doesn't love the Five; she doesn't want to be human; she doesn't want to be a machine; she doesn't want to die but I'm pretty sure there isn't really another option for her at this point. SOMEONE'S gonna kill her. I'd just rather she went out unrepentant than all self-sacrificing because given developments last week it'd be a shitty, "I redeemed myself through DEATH," thing which is...less interesting than, "I REGRET NOTHING, BITCHES!"

Speaking of Boomer: where the hell was Chief? Why wasn't he relaying information to Adama about the repairs? Why did we have random Deck Gang Dude? Did he get found out and put in the brig? WTH is going on with that?

Speaking of Boomer: OMG HERA CAN PROJECT! Awesome. I mean, she was already aware of the Opera House to a degree, but the daydream at the start also looks like she is kind of...in charge of that? I'm betting this isn't the first time she's done it, she just probably doesn't consider it that weird. It's like daydreaming for her? Anyway, that's cool. Also the new actress is growing on me somewhat. Although she's still less cute. But less less cute than last week.

In other plotlines, I continue to be completely fucking devastated by Laura's lack of awesome, especially since with such tiny fucking alterations I'd be okay with it. Like...dudes, have her be awesome during the mutiny because she's angry; have her more explicitly have to hand power over to Lee for health reasons. I WOULD BE OKAY WITH IT THEN. But just...gah.

The silver lining was that while I obviously was not thrilled about her waxing eloquent about MAH CABIN! MAH HOME! WITH YOOOOOU EVEN THOUGH I'M IN CHRONIC PAIN! WE ARE YOUR WIMMMIINZ! I did manage to retain some of my earlier-in-the-series alternate reading skills to the point that I think if I wasn't generally disgruntled, I'd've been fine with the scene.

Mainly because it struck me as classic Laura in a lot of ways. Not that she was lying exactly, but that she knew exactly what she needed to say to make Adama do the right thing. I kind of saw that whole thing as, "Oh Lords, he needs it broken to him gently and explained in small words again, doesn't he?" And when I look at it that way, with Laura using her own story to be kind to this stuck, out-of-touch old man so that he can handle the decisions he has to make because he's never been good at seeing reality, well, then I'm calmer.

I'm not sure what I think of the Anders subplot. On the one hand, forcibly turning people into hybrids is kind of awesome (though obviously it should have been Baltar and it should have involved painfully cutting off his legs). Like, conceptually I love it and I think it was quite beautifully and gracefully executed. But I'm worried that the payoff will go in a direction I don't like for the story?

Like, I 'ship neither L/K nor A/R but was willing to accept both of them as the endgame as of 4x10. A/R has obviously turned out far to obvious and agency-devouring on Laura's part for me to really be okay with anymore. L/K has been wonderfully understated but at this point, it's been so wonderfully understated to the point that up to and including this episode I have nothing but actual honest love for their season four relationship, that I worry the inevitable L/K ending is going to feel really tacked-on and false to me.

This season has sold me, so, so much that her relationship with Anders is true and real and there that I'm honestly not sure I do believe that she loves Lee as much (at least not in that way; as family, then yes, she loves him infinity). I always believed that Anders would probably die before the end/there would be some way of reconciling Kara and Lee.

But seriously, at this point I don't know if I'd buy it. I mean, I desperately want Anders to wake up and be okay. But if he doesn't, I don't want Kara to run off into the sunset with Lee. I kind of want her to hang out with her Hybridized husband having magical goo sex in the hopes it'll make him spout prophecy. And for Kara and Lee to continue this beautiful, accepting, loving, BFFship.

There might be something wrong with me...

I continue to continue to love the encylonment of Galactica - now complete with its own hybrid! - though I hope Sam is detachable cus I don't want him going down with the ship so Adama doesn't have to. (Oh, yeah, that's now my fondest hope for the end of the series, since clearly Galactica's gonna die: GO DOWN WITH YOUR SHIP, DUDE). Although I'm a little sad that the encylonment isn't working. BOO.

IT'S ALL DOWN TO THE CORNER CUTTING AND THE INFERIOR ALLOYS.

Oh, cranky deck gang Six. :( I LOVED YOU. At least you got a kickass funeral. I did like that funeral. I did think it was, like the moment with the memorial wall, a beautiful and understated and real way of expressing the further blending of the ship.

In the midst of all my character-plotline angst, I do continue to love the aesthetic of these episodes. Lost and hopeless until all people have is acceptance and hope even though both feel pretty meaningless. Like Helo. This episode was beautifully titled.

Followed by Baltar's desperate attempt to what? Why did he doe that? Because he'd had it up to here with destiny the funeral not being about him? Because he was trying to impress Caprica Six? (He did keep staring at a Six I assume must have been her right before hand). How exactly was that supposed to work?

I'm a little disappointed Starbuck didn't punch him, but only a little. I actually think the slap worked in a more...exhausted and broken rather than angry way. I also believe she'd've told him. He has the skills she needs, would be intrigued enough to do it, and at this point, I really don't think fear of discovery is larger than fear of the unknown, so I was cool with that. Even if I did think the pissing thing was a little weird. Kinda funny, but weird. I mean, dude, okay the latch might be busted but you can still close the damn door!

What I'm really wondering about now, though, is how they'll handle it because obviously I'm still fixated on Daniel/Dreilide. Mainly because if they're going with the angel analogy we may never get a clear answer on that which would annoy me. Her potential status as a hybrid doesn't explain her resurrection (well, two resurrections; her ship and body were destroyed in the maelstrom first time). But it does help explain why she's got "destiny" in the first place. Similarly her being an angel doesn't explain her father knowing That Song. So we need two different things to be addressed here. Hopefully they will both be.

Which means I've said everything I want to except about, you got it, Caprica.

While I was grateful we got to see her at all, I'm not thrilled that we got, what, one scene where she says five lines and a few long distance shots.

So. An open letter.

My gods, writers, Tricia Helfer is an un-fucking-believably good actress. This character has un-fucking-believable amounts of issues and material to work with. She is a member of your main cast. Give her some fucking airtime already. I know we see Helfer in a lot of scenes. And I appreciate the way she nuances all the different Sixes, I do (I love Sonja; I loved Deckgang Six), but you're not giving any of them storylines.

Used to be, my only major issue with this season was the way you stole Laura's agency. Used to be, while I hated it, I could also acknowledge that Caprica's quiet storylines; so deeply powerful, so invisible, like riptides that only surfaced occasionally when suddenly she exploded and lead her people to New Caprica, or murdered Boomer and ran off with Hera, or started sharing the the mystic vision of the series, or one day beat the shit out of Saul Tigh, were part of why I loved her. Her lack of attention shaped her character in many ways. Not that she couldn't have been that person with more airtime. But she's quiet, and certain, and patient and full of love.

But guys, listen. Liam's not just about Tigh. Who we've seen comforted by Adama, and defended by Ellen, and now slowly coming to grips with the fact that maybe he lost Liam but maybe he also has the entire Cylon race, and Ellen can still hug him and stuff.

We don't even know where Caprica is living. And it sure as hell looks like she's staying in Sick Bay because she has nowhere else to go, so I assume Ellen moved right back in with Tigh (although she could have been visiting in that scene). That's heartbreaking, guys. Even if that was her choice, that's...awful. Especially after all that crap about how everyone loves everyone. Apparently not enough to give her a damn home after she loses her son. And the only other option she has is Baltar's harem.

Why the hell isn't this storyline about her?

Come on, guys. You can do it. Give her good material in the finale. Don't have her as an extra who goes along for the ride, picks up a kid in an Opera House and has some ambiguous ending. Do right by this exceptional character and exceptional actress.

I KNOW YOU CAN.

With reserved amounts of love,
me.

As to what we actually saw of Caprica in this episode, oh, dudes. :(

It was almost as painful as Helo. They might only give her a handful of lines but she does so well with them.

What I desperately want for her, by the end of the season, is for someone to see her. Just as her. Just as the amazing person she is. And love her for that. At this point, I think my last hope for that is going to be Gaius Baltar. Which in itself is a little sad.

On the plus side, James Callis played it beautifully and I did find myself remembering a lot of the reasons why, at the start of season three, I really just wanted both of them to save each other.

On the plus side, I love that Caprica didn't just fall back into that. She's not who she was. I'm glad that if Baltar wants some kind of reproachment with her, he'll have to work for it. I think he even starts to understand that.

And you know what, while it pisses me off that this whole story was kept to like, one thirty-second scene, Gaius' face at the end?

You guys, I think we might have just seen the very first time Caprica's ever broken someone else's heart. The first time someone looked at her and loved her with no ulterior motive.

Which is actually pretty mindblowing and beautiful.

It's also where we get to the downside. Which is heartbreaking in itself. I am finally at a point where I really believe Gaius might love her; be able to love her.

But I also completely agree with what Caprica said. He's still the same guy. Yes he wants to do something good, to be loved, to be a good man. But he's always wanted that. Now popularity and adoration comes in the form of "doing good" but how much of that is genuine? How much is Head!Six manipulating him? How long until he runs away to a Lida again? Or regains control to save Dogsville but only because Paulla wounded his pride, not because he honestly wanted to help. Even if he enjoys the byproduct of helping. He's the same guy who wants absolution without ever admitting fault. Maybe that's why I was so moved by his face at the end of this scene: it was the closest thing I've seen to understanding that.

All he does in this episode is prove Caprica right. When she says she's no desire to join his harem, he starts out well. Denying it in a way I believe; it's not even defensive about him, it's honest pain for her because he just wanted to help her and instead he hurt her. And then he stops, and starts his spiel about how they're trying to help people. Yeah, he's trying to explain to her something he kind of believes, but it's just making it about him again. About how important he is. He's never gotten over his fear of being ordinary. "How can you think that of me?" he's saying. "I'm trying to HELP people down here!"

So next time he sees her, he does it again.

He'll never impress her by making it all about how great he is. It's not what she wants. What she wants is for him to see her; not be someone he thinks she'd like to see. The worst part is, I think he does see her, but not well enough to understand that's all he needs to do.

In conclusion: my hopes for the finale are still that everyone dies except Caprica. And maybe Sam.

Comments

[rose-griffes.livejournal.com]

I kind of want her to hang out with her Hybridized husband having magical goo sex in the hopes it'll make him spout prophecy. And for Kara and Lee to continue this beautiful, accepting, loving, BFFship.

Well, I would love this, but I'm not exactly unbiased. I've always liked K/L as friends, though. Rooting for a pair that's NOT the obvious endgame has actually been pretty rewarding so far this season (Kara dragged Sam to sickbay and for this episode we got the awesome 'You're my Sam' speech)... but I still expect them to go with Kara/Lee in the end. And their brief scene together was another reminder of that.

You guys, I think we might have just seen the very first time Caprica's ever broken someone else's heart. The first time someone looked at her and loved her with no ulterior motive.

It was a lovely moment, yes.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

I agree that the not-obvious-endgame pair has been really rewarding this season. Basically I feel like they've done too good a job to the point I'm not sure I'd actually buy K/L at this point. But that could be my inner anti-K/L shipper rearing its head.

[rose-griffes.livejournal.com]

I'm still on the fence. Sort of depends on what they do with the remaining episodes.

But that could be my inner anti-K/L shipper rearing its head.
I never used to have one of those! And then I suddenly found myself actively shipping Kara/Sam and it was totally against my will!

Watching as a shippy viewer is much more exhausting than just... watching. Stupid pretty cylon Sam. This whole shippy thing is all his fault.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

I very much got "down with your ship" vibes from Adama last night (I am hoping he dies for different reasons then you, obviously, but still). Who knows. He can't die until it's over, and then he'll die and he'll get to be a hero instead of the old man who can't stop.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

YAY, I really hope so.

Even when I'm temporarily pretending not to hate him and trying to be unbiased in my character readings, I'm completely on the same page as you about him being the old man who can't stop.

Whether you love or hate him, I think the best end to his character journey now is death. Just...whether or not it should be a good death is the question, right? ;)

[nicole-anell.livejournal.com]

Speaking of Boomer: where the hell was Chief? Why wasn't he relaying information to Adama about the repairs? Why did we have random Deck Gang Dude? Did he get found out and put in the brig? WTH is going on with that?
According to Bear McCreary's blog, yes, Chief is in the brig. Which is another cut scene they DIDN'T THINK WAS NECESSARY TO SHOW US or anything, because Adama having a paint breakdown was so much more pressing.

I didn't know why it was played as such a shock Hera could project -- she obviously has major Cylon mojo going on, and I always thought the opera house visions were similar to projections.

New!Hera (or new new!Hera) completely won me over this week. *wibble*

On the one hand, forcibly turning people into hybrids is kind of awesome (though obviously it should have been Baltar and it should have involved painfully cutting off his legs).
Okay, that cracked me up. How do you REALLY feel? XD I'm really bummed this had to happen to Anders of all people, I like him and I don't think it's fair to his character. And as sweet as the Kara/Lee scene was, there's been a lot of talk on my flist about them ending up together "by default" and I agree that's a cheap, cheap way to go.

I did think it was, like the moment with the memorial wall, a beautiful and understated and real way of expressing the further blending of the ship.
Yes, funeral love! And RIP cranky bitch hero Six. <3 That was awesome.

GO DOWN WITH YOUR SHIP, DUDE
WE CAN ONLY HOPE.

I have nothing to say but YES YES YES to your open letter about Caprica-Six. I'm not optimistic, though. It's really sad.

That ridiculously short yet mind-blowing Baltar/Caprica-Six scene -- god, yes. I can't even. *points frantically at what you said, nodding*

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

...oh sweet baby jesus, that is ridiculous. I'm not surprised they found out what he did, hell he may even have confessed. But one single freaking line to explain this? That deck gang guy could have said, "Sorry sir, but the Chief knows this better than me," and then there could have been a line explaining that he was in the FRAKKING BRIG. I just... Usually if I think things they cut are dumb I can at least vaguely see how it would have seemed a good idea at the time. But this is a crowning moment of editorial fail.

I wasn't really shocked Hera could project either, but I guess it's yet more proof of her being deeply cylonish. I always figured that the whole creepy Six pictures thing and the vision in Guess What's Coming to Dinner was supposed to reveal that Hera was an active participant in those Opera House visions too, whereas before it was left somewhat ambiguous since she was so young, if it was just a vision of Hera.

Okay, that cracked me up. How do you REALLY feel? XD

:p

Actually I'm just being glib and referencing that story (http://beccatoria.livejournal.com/73654.html) I wrote where I named Kara's dad "Daniel" and decided he should be Number 7. I might also have cut off Baltar's legs and forcibly turned him into a magical hybrid who would save the world...

I had issues with him at the time. It was the only way I could think of to make him suffer and be a hero at the same time!

Regarding the "default" thing, I agree. Under other circumstances, I might be more okay with it, like, two broken people finding comfort in whoever's left (a la Caprica/Tigh) but since Lee/Kara are the original coupling that doesn't work.

At this point, if Anders is dead, I really hope that they don't end up together, or with anyone else, just so that it's not a default thing, you know?

As to Caprica, I am stubborngly still clinging to Tricia Helfer's interview. "VERY HAPPY," she said, "WITH WHERE SHE LEFT CAPRICA SIX," she said.

*is horribly nervous*

[nicole-anell.livejournal.com]

Aha, now I feel embarrassed for not catching that because I STILL have not read "The Body is a Myth". I do have it bookmarked! *wince*

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Dude, it's ridiculously long and I forbid you to feel guilty for not reading it.

You'll get around to it when and if you want to. :)

I am not in any way offended. You are awesome.

[asta77.livejournal.com]

According to Bear McCreary's blog, yes, Chief is in the brig. Which is another cut scene they DIDN'T THINK WAS NECESSARY TO SHOW US or anything, because Adama having a paint breakdown was so much more pressing.

Well, Frak. I was theorizing that Aaron might not have been available for shooting so they put in random deck guy. Sigh. Just a couple of lines of dialogue could have cleared up why he was MIA.

[nightxade.livejournal.com]

I assumed they brigged him, but yeah, one single line, just like with the muntineers, could have covered this with pithy goodness. I'm hoping that the 4.5 DVD box set has liek amillion deleted scenes, along with an editors commentary that apologizes profusely for all the things that ended up on the floor.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Tahmoh was amazing tonight. I so wish we'd gotten the Helo/Kara in Joe's bar scene that they referenced in one of the ebay auctions. DVD will probably have it though.


I hated Adama breaking his heart like that but there were a few tiny moments that made me like Bill again this episode. (Shocked by that I was.)

Good point about Chief! I wondered where he was and why we were getting this guy. I bet podcast explains it. He probably did get caught when they found the knocked-out (not dead I hope) eight in the brig.

Re: Laura, while the "your women" stuff creeps me out a bit still. (Cause can you imagine any other female on this show, maybe aside from Ellen, saying that to a man "I'm your woman."...I really can't. And that they're putting those words in Laura's mouth, even just to be ironic, sorta blows.) BUT, I've seen a lot of hardcore Laura lovers lamenting the fact that she's showing any vulnerability at all in what's essentially her final moments. She's a woman and she has a heart and I don't quite get why people who love her automatically hate if she indulges a little bit in her love for Bill. I've heard the arguments about how all we're getting is that love and not her business side anymore, but I think the timing is pretty key. Maybe it's just they're feeling it's been so out of balance this whole season. That we didn't get enough of Laura's businesslike side, but if you take the whole series into consideration, her time indulging herself and being romantic is but a small blip on the dradis.

I was touched by the Kara/Sam scenes tonight and they have indeed done a great job showing the depth of love Kara feels for Sam. And I was feeling a little like, holy crap, she loves him so much how is she ever going to get over him, because Katee just twists my heart. But...then the K/L scene came and it was so utterly open and accepting and beautiful. Kara gets a real peace whenever she is around Lee that she doesn't get from Sam ever again after New Caprica (which is a reverse of the early days when Sam gave her peace and Lee gave her angst). Do you really want Kara to stay with her essentially braindead/mechanized husband in hopes he'll someday be a person again? I think that would be such an utterly sad place for her. To condemn her to a purgatory like that. And if the places were switched and Lee was in the tub, I still wouldn't want her to hang around waiting for him to wake up. (Of course then I'd probably want her to put a bullet in him and chase it with one for her so they could have a tragic Romeo/Juliet kind of end. Because I'm a sappy shipper.)

Caprica and Baltar are so not my people, but I was really impressed and moved by their scene together. And I really frakking wish Sonja looked different or at least had different wardrobe from Caprica because I never know who it is until they say a name!

Oh and my sneaking suspicion about Kara's true nature: That's it. Daniel was a red herring, as was her knowing the song. We aren't going to find out. Like Lee, we are not supposed to care. And this episode closing her storyline with putting her dead chick to rest, makes me OK with that. Because Kara finally doesn't need the answers. So neither do I. (It fits with Katee's recent LA Times interview too, her saying some people will still think she's a cylon after the show ends.)

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Ooh, there was reference to a Helo/Kara seen in the bar? I didn't know about that.

Regarding Laura, it's not that she's showing vulnerability. One of the things I love best about Laura is her vulnerability and her ways of negotiating that area of herself without losing it. What pisses me off is the timing and the handling of it. Firstly, the entire story of her dying is basically being told from Bill's perspective. It's All About Him. Putting these words ironically in her mouth ceases to be ironic when there's nothing around to contextualise them as being so. It's not the plot that bothers me: Laura enters a relationship with Bill; in the wake of her failing health and the disaster of the mutiny (during which she rises to the occasion), she retires from politics and lets Lee take over. It's the way it was handled. Her behaviour in the mutiny, at least in the second episode aboard the basestar was presented as being so overwhelmingly about Bill Adama to the point that she appeals to the Cylon nation in a manner that suggests if they don't agree, Bill won't like them any more and how will they like that?

And then, her retirement seems so much more to do with her previous "I want a break" spiel than her illness...I just...

I want to see her vulnerable. I want to see her feel. But I want to see her feel. I don't want to see only Adama. And I certainly don't want her declaring stuff like, "It's only since I started dating YOU that I feel I've had any kind of home!" I know it's not literally true, but the word "home" evokes a lot and it skirts close to suggesting she was never really happy or fulfilled before she knew the love of Bill Adama.

And yeah. I have a HUGE problem with that because one of the things I loved best and forever about Laura was how much she loved her people. How hard she fought for them. And that she thought it was worth it. For other people, maybe, it's okay. She deserves "a little happiness." But the Laura I fell in love with couldn't be happy if she wasn't defending her people - her people - with every fibre of her being.

Thus I am emo! ;)

As to Kara, well firstly, in my hypothetical scenario I wouldn't want Sam to be braindead, no. I was thinking more, conscious and aware if a little like he was in No Exit so really it'd be more like being married to someone physically disabled in some way. If he was actually braindead, then no, I wouldn't want her to stay with a vegetable forever.

I'm just not sure I'd want to see her running into Lee's arms as anything other than a best friend/sister any time soon or it'll feel...arbitrary and unworthy of both of them? They love each other. Yes. (Although I think Sam also gives her that acceptance and peace). But I don't know... If there were a season left maybe. But just hooking up in the finale cus it's the finale? Meh.

I'm also worried about the thing with Kara. I honestly wouldn't care if they never answered the Daniel question or where she came from if the SHOW ITSELF hadn't posed it. Had they not dangled both Daniel and Kara's father as GIANT RED HERRING LOOSE ENDS, I really would be championing the "it doesn't matter what she is, it was a miracle!" team. But as things stand, no, I need answers.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Firstly, the entire story of her dying is basically being told from Bill's perspective. It's All About Him.

Hmm I haven't seen that so much in her story. I mean not the way Caprica's story is all being told from Tigh's perspective and she totally has no agency. Laura is saying she wants these things. She wants to stop leading. She wants to just live for a change. So I think she does believe it. And it was her choice not to take the medicine and her choice to step back from leadership. And though I get that they're unpopular choices and possibly inconsistent with her previous choices, they're still her choices.
I see her having agency but not the same kind of agency she's had in the past.

it skirts close to suggesting she was never really happy or fulfilled before she knew the love of Bill Adama. ... And yeah. I have a HUGE problem with that because one of the things I loved best and forever about Laura was how much she loved her people. How hard she fought for them. And that she thought it was worth it.

But...what if she's changed her mind? What if she no longer thinks it's worth it? What if it truly is his love that makes her feel whole and home at this point? Why couldn't that be the case? (It bugs me a bit that people think she can't be her own strong woman AND still a sap about love. I don't find the two things contradictory.)

OTOH, and with me there's always another hand, I didn't hate her emotions for Bill here, but I hated the precise dialogue they gave her about "his women" and I've hated some of her precise reactions in the past--that bit on the baseship about the cylons falling in line because of Bill, as you point out. So I do still have quite a few issues with the way they're writing Laura.

I guess I'm conflicted. You make goodly points as always. I might be getting a little fatigued by the rage at all of Laura's emo moments. Everyone else gets to be emo and broody and kinda useless occasionally, so why shouldn't she too? Hee.

I don't see L/K as the default anything so while I do think it would be really weird for them to be hooking up so soon (and I don't think they will), I'm fine with them returning to how much in love with each other they've always been. Kara's feelings for Sam have always been such a separate thing from her feelings for Lee in my mind. And I just don't think we're going to see sentient Sammy again (unless it's a flashback).

I was pretty sure last night that that was it for answers about Kara's identity. I still strongly believe they might not but that last scene with Sam where she says we're going to figure this out. It's hard to imagine that they'll figure it out without also figuring HER out. But...I think they might based on Katee interviews and Ron interviews I've read.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

And though I get that they're unpopular choices and possibly inconsistent with her previous choices, they're still her choices.

But against a backdrop of social media where these are considered the "correct" and "best" choices for a woman to make, I find them highly suspect from a storytelling perspective. She's a fictional character. She didn't change her mind, the writers decided to change it. And apparently change it so that it was more in keeping with the old stereotype that a woman can have a career, but it's when she finds a man that she really gets fulfilled. I don't want to dismiss that as character agency when she's using her agency to conform to sexist stereotypes.

I've long been a defender of BSG and its treatment of women and have been happy to let them run around doing things that might seem, on the surface, to be sexist - like the way Six dresses, or pre-occupation with babies - because I thought there was so much awesome out there that it was just another side to things.

But the way Laura is falling into such enormous cliches so quickly and completely is just depressing.

What if it truly is his love that makes her feel whole and home at this point? Why couldn't that be the case? (It bugs me a bit that people think she can't be her own strong woman AND still a sap about love. I don't find the two things contradictory.)

My problem is that the show treats these things as contradictory. I certainly don't believe them to be so.

Kara is a good example of someone who is both. Laura was.

It could simply be bad timing that her relationship with Bill coincides with her medical need to step away from her duties, but I'm honestly tired of making excuses for this show when the end implication is that it's better this way.

Why can't she have these moments with Bill while still being the same character we've always known; the one who would gladly bleed to death for her people?

It's not that she considers Bill Adama to be a "home" to her. That's absolutely fine. It's the weird need to suggest he is her first ever "real" home, and that all homes prior this have been transitory, temporary, meaningless.

The implication not that she's happy and fulfilled, but that she was never happy or fulfilled before.

And yes, no matter how you slice it, I'm going to have a hard time reading a powerful woman who has accomplished AMAZING THINGS, like ensuring the survival of her entire race, only finally being happy when she gets to stop working and have a Man, as anything other than deeply sexist. Certainly I don't find, "Oh but the character just changed her mind," to be a compelling arguement to the contrary. :(

Sorry if I'm going on here. It's certainly not my intention to attack you, neither do I feel attacked by you. I just...am realising how deeply I feel about this and am using this comment as a chance to get my thoughts in order?

As to Lee and Kara, don't worry, I do think they'll end up with some kind of continuing (and probably romantic) relationship, so hopefully at least one of us will get the ending we want! :) I will try to be happy for you!

And we'll be seeing Sammy again in The Plan at least.

I think given where we leave Kara and Sam there has to be some payoff for still leaving him plugged in.

Speculation: Sam gives them a reason to go after Hera?

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

First, this is good discussion. No attacking here. I too use commenting to process my feelings about the developments.

The thing is she can change her mind if the writers change it because she doesn't exist outside of the writers/show like you say. (And every single character has changed so much over the course of the show, it makes sense to me that she's not the same person she was 4/5 years ago. Perhaps saying "she changed her mind" was bad phrasing on my part. Better would be "fundamentally she is a changed person, and not the Laura who was so single-minded and black-and-white and all about rolling the hard six that she was in the early days.")

For me there's hints of sexist stuff/sterotypical choices, but there's also mainly a lot of other things going on. And I'm one of the folks who felt that for a lot of s3.5 and s4.0 Laura was not a fully realized character. She felt fairly one-dimensional to me as her emotional life seemed fairly barren. Not nearly as complex and interesting as she'd been in the mini, season one and two.

Just out of curiousity, what were your thoughts on UB and the Adama/Roslin storyline there?

Maybe I am too forgiving of the show as a whole. On one hand I can understand looking at some of her dialogue and the timing of things and seeing her backing away from her leadership role and yet still being really happy as a stereotypical or sexist or anti-feminist decision. But for whatever reason, that seems like too easy a criticism and like it's not the whole picture. Not the way Caprica has been so utterly marginalized and that's all we get of her. But then, everything is degrees I suppose.

Interesting food for thought.

Oh I forgot about The Plan! I'm happy for Trucco that Sam's end is not his final notes in the BSG universe sorta. Sam's going to give them the answers and probably jump the ship. I just wonder what happens to him after that.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Hooray for no attacking! Hugs for everyone! :)

To be honest, whether we talk about her having changed her mind or simply being a changed character, I still feel that by choosing to change her in this fashion the writers are doing something harmful.

I mean, partly I didn't have these issues with her in 4.0, but that's a matter of opinion, obviously.

To be honest, a lot of my disatisfaction isn't coming from the plot, or the shape of the conversation, which might described as, "Laura gently convinces Bill that it's okay to abandon ship." My issues are with the blatantly sexist and ridiculous language they choose to put in my girlfriend's mouth in a completely unnecessary fashion, which changes the scene from the above outline to, "Laura gently convinces Bill that it's okay to abandon ship by becoming a complete frakking cliche."

So like, we both hate some of the lines of dialogue. I think I just find them more harmful in the wider context of her character.

To be honest, I consider myself very forgiving of this show too, but in some ways that makes me MORE angry when they pull something this unnecessary and blatant.

I'm angry about Caprica's treatment, sure. But at the same time (not that this justifies it) she has always had these issues and has always been a B-list character. It's not quite the same as turning Laura Frakking Roslin into someone's "woman."

Regarding Sam, mainly I just hope they can detach him before the Galactica inevitably goes down in flames...

ETA: Sorry - you asked me about UB. Obviously I wasn't thrilled with it because I don't like A/R. But I didn't have a huge problem with it because at that point there really wasn't anything better Laura should be doing other than teaching kids and getting on with her life. And as soon as the Cylon arrived, she was right in there with the resistance being...resisty. So like, at that point, her role as Awesome Leader of Humanity had been taken away from her by circumstance and the entirety of humanity wasn't in like, current mortal peril and need of leadership. Which has not been the case from 4x12 until now.

At that point, Adama was also struggling with not having the purpose of his old life or as much purpose to his role as Admiral. As was everyone else on the show. Settling down and grabbing some happiness was what everyone was doing, including Laura, not what Laura was doing while everyone else was having a breakdown.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Fair enough. I actually think your spec (even though it no longer works for you) that she had to explain things to Bill like he's a child is really right on also. That's definitely been the scenario before and I certainly got some of that. But I agree that the way they phrase things for her sometimes is really fucking hideous.

The thing about Caprica is that I can never really grab onto her because she's everyone's prism. And so when she said that she'd changed to Baltar, I couldn't quite grasp it because I never knew who she was to begin with I guess. I actually think the writers did a terrible job giving (or failing to give) both Caprica and Boomer distinct personalities, because I could never tell where the lines were between Caprica/Head!Six and Boomer/Athena. But admittedly I am way less fascinated by the cylons.

[cyborganize.livejournal.com]

I had one eye closed while I was scrolling through this thread -- but you're still my hero for even engaging in it.

[sabaceanbabe.livejournal.com]

Tahmoh was amazing tonight. I so wish we'd gotten the Helo/Kara in Joe's bar scene that they referenced in one of the ebay auctions.

Dude. What? WHAT? WHERE??

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

grey posted the link a few days ago...it was to an ebay auction of an alcohol bottle and first line of descrip said something like "This is the bottle of alcohol Kara and Helo are drinking from in Joe's Bar in a scene from "Islanded in a Stream of Stars."

[pellucid.livejournal.com]

Mainly because it struck me as classic Laura in a lot of ways. Not that she was lying exactly, but that she knew exactly what she needed to say to make Adama do the right thing. I kind of saw that whole thing as, "Oh Lords, he needs it broken to him gently and explained in small words again, doesn't he?" And when I look at it that way, with Laura using her own story to be kind to this stuck, out-of-touch old man so that he can handle the decisions he has to make because he's never been good at seeing reality, well, then I'm calmer.

This was my initial impression, but it did not hold up to a rewatch, I'm afraid. And now I'm just PISSED OFF AS FUCK BECAUSE OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE THEY DONE TO MY LAURA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*ahem*

There really were elements of this episode I liked--Sam-as-Hybrid was particularly awesome, and the Kara bits were great--but I really am so annoyed about Laura that I can't begin to be rational about it yet. Plus, I completely agree with you that NOTHING HAPPENED. Except that Sam's a Hybrid, Kara has accepted the fact that she died, even though no one has any idea what that means, Cavil's got Hera, and they're abandoning Galactica. That seems like the material for the first half of an episode.

And WORD to everything you say about Caprica. I really loved that scene between her and Baltar, but it does not rectify all the FAIL of her plotline this season.

Increasingly, I wish "Revelations" had been the end of the series. I'd have been a bit pissed off at the lack of answers, but at least they had not yet committed so many brazen acts of character assassination.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

This was my initial impression, but it did not hold up to a rewatch, I'm afraid.

...fuck.

Now I'm afraid to rewatch it.

That seems like the material for the first half of an episode.

And at other points in the show I'd be okay with that. Or even at this point if there'd been awesome character stuff to counter-act the slowness like there was last week, or, hypothetically, the week before (though they srsly screwed up on execution and plotline). Grr.

And WORD to everything you say about Caprica. I really loved that scene between her and Baltar, but it does not rectify all the FAIL of her plotline this season.

Indeed. Although making someone chase her (if there's time for that in the finale; even though NOTHING HAPPENS on the show these days, apparently there is also never any time for MAIN CAST MEMBERS to get scenes or for MAJOR PLOT POINTS TO BE EXPLAINED when it means another shot of Adama brushing his teeth might need to fall on the cutting room floor) would go a long way toward letting me sleep at night. Even if it is Baltar. :(

The worst bit for me is that I don't wish Revelations was the end. There are too many awesome things about this half season I wouldn't want to lose. The entirety of No Exit. A lot of the mutiny. Kara playing All Along the Watchtower. Kara and Laura setting their own funeral pyres alight. The incorporation of the Cylon into Galactica's population.

I find this season so incredibly angry-making because such awesome stuff is inextricably linked to such fail.

The fail, as I see it, being:

- The ridiculous characterisation of Laura.
- The ridiculous characterisation of Adama.
- The ridiculous characterisation of Cylon Reproduction.

Caprica Six's plotline is a knock-on effect of the third one, so I don't feel the need to list it separately especially since, while I think she should be an A-list character, she's really B-list at best and I know I care much more than most people.

Which isn't actually that much in a show as wide-spread as this one. And yet, they managed to pick the issues that - in terms of what I love about the show - cascade over into a shitload of other stuff they're otherwise handling okay.

BOO. BOO I SAY. AND FIX IT IN THE FINALE.

[asta77.livejournal.com]

where the hell was Chief? Why wasn't he relaying information to Adama about the repairs? Why did we have random Deck Gang Dude?

I wonder if random deck guy was used as a Chief substitute. I know Tricia was shooting BSG and Burn Notice simultaneously. I’m wondering if maybe Aaron needed some time off for another job? Because the writer’s strike delayed filming, it seems Ron was trying to be generous and allow people time off whenever they needed it.

I continue to be completely fucking devastated by Laura's lack of awesome, especially since with such tiny fucking alterations I'd be okay with it.

Yeah, it’s character assassination by small degrees. I loved her comments on what makes a home and it’s something they’ve all been struggling with since the series began and people are coming to realize that it’s just not a physical location. But then she had to state she didn’t feel like she had a home until these past few months with Adama and GRRRRRRR.

Mainly because it struck me as classic Laura in a lot of ways. Not that she was lying exactly, but that she knew exactly what she needed to say to make Adama do the right thing. I kind of saw that whole thing as, "Oh Lords, he needs it broken to him gently and explained in small words again, doesn't he?" And when I look at it that way, with Laura using her own story to be kind to this stuck, out-of-touch old man so that he can handle the decisions he has to make because he's never been good at seeing reality, well, then I'm calmer.

I like this because it’s having a soothing affect on me too. But there is still the problem of Laura having attached herself to a selfish, out-of-touch, drunken, broken asshole. She’s dying and has to spend her precious time and energy propping him up. Again, I say GRRRRRR.

I kind of want her to hang out with her Hybridized husband having magical goo sex in the hopes it'll make him spout prophecy.

Snerk. But I can see someone writing that fic!

And for Kara and Lee to continue this beautiful, accepting, loving, BFFship.

Word. I really adored their scene together and am SO glad they didn’t kiss. Not just because of my anti-L/K tendencies, but because Kara is dealing with enough without the added burden of ‘cheating’ on her comatose/hybridized husband.

We don't even know where Caprica is living. And it sure as hell looks like she's staying in Sick Bay because she has nowhere else to go, so I assume Ellen moved right back in with Tigh (although she could have been visiting in that scene).

I don’t recall seeing any of Ellen’s things in Tigh’s closet. So while Caprica may have opted not to go back to him, it doesn’t seem like he or Ellen took that as an opportunity to pick up where they left off. I really felt as if Ellen was just trying to be his friend right now.

In conclusion: my hopes for the finale are still that everyone dies except Caprica. And maybe Sam.

And LEE! Do you know how many times I’ve had to see Jamie die on screen? I’m owed Lee’s life!

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Tricia Helfer was shooting Burn Notice at the same time? I wonder if that accounts for the relatively blatant lack of Sixes this season.

Re: Laura over the last few hours I've kind of lost my wonderful zen (even though I still prefer that reading) because the fact that the writers used such horrifically cliched cliche and put these fucking words in her mouth is something apparently I can't really get over.

The weird positive to this is that I've gotten so angry about it it's almost cathartic. Like I can just write this off as fucking ludicrous and now it's oddly easier ot remember the awesome bits about her from before and just...disassociate the "real" her from it?

I...hope that lasts.

She’s dying and has to spend her precious time and energy propping him up. Again, I say GRRRRRR.

Oh and ugh, that's so true and I hadn't even thought that far into it either. *cries*

Snerk. But I can see someone writing that fic!

Probably someone already has... o_O

I don’t recall seeing any of Ellen’s things in Tigh’s closet. So while Caprica may have opted not to go back to him, it doesn’t seem like he or Ellen took that as an opportunity to pick up where they left off. I really felt as if Ellen was just trying to be his friend right now.

I do actually agree that Ellen was primarily concerned for Tigh's welfare rather than trying to pick up where they left off, and you do raise a good point about the clothes.

I am still...irked that we don't get more information about this though.

And LEE! Do you know how many times I’ve had to see Jamie die on screen? I’m owed Lee’s life!

Oh ALL RIGHT. Caprica and Sam and Lee. BUT ONLY FOR YOU. And also only if they then form the first threesome in the show where Caprica doesn't end up getting jilted.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Chief is in the Brig according to the podcast.

[daybreak777.livejournal.com]

"I redeemed myself through DEATH," thing which is...less interesting than, "I REGRET NOTHING, BITCHES!"
Hee! I like your Boomer! Though I really thought she had given Hera that injection. I'm torn. I want her to have no regrets but not be a monster, either. Maybe I can have both?

I have nothing but actual honest love for their season four relationship, that I worry the inevitable L/K ending is going to feel really tacked-on and false to me.
That may be true. But as a K/L shipper I'm taking what I can get. I can only trust Jamie and Katee to make it work at this point. And they can.

Oh, cranky deck gang Six. :( I LOVED YOU.
Me too! Why do all of the Sixes I love die? I'm afraid to love Caprica too much because then she'll die too.

What I desperately want for her, by the end of the season, is for someone to see her. Just as her. Just as the amazing person she is. And love her for that. At this point, I think my last hope for that is going to be Gaius Baltar. Which in itself is a little sad.
Awww. Baltar, strangely enough, may be the only one who really sees people in the end. How weird is that? But people do seem to be confessing to him lately. Very interesting.

In conclusion: my hopes for the finale are still that everyone dies except Caprica. And maybe Sam.
Aww! Well, are those your only hopes? Oh dear.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

I don't want her to be a monster either. I just...if she's going to die I don't want that tired cliche of dying to redeem herself. I know I was being silly, but that whole "I REGRET NOTHING, BITCHES!" thing doesn't necessarily need to be unsympathetic. I mean really I think it's kind of sad that I'm pretty sure she will die since I like her more than Athena but I'm not sure what else they could do with her at this point that I'd believe.

Me too! Why do all of the Sixes I love die? I'm afraid to love Caprica too much because then she'll die too.

Hee! Yeah, I know the feeling. Sixes are totally the redshirts of BSG! (Or should that be the Little Red Dresses of BSG?)

Awww. Baltar, strangely enough, may be the only one who really sees people in the end. How weird is that? But people do seem to be confessing to him lately. Very interesting.

Yeah, Gaeta, now Starbuck. I think the problem with Baltar is that when he isn't self-absorbed, he's so smart, I don't think he can help but see people. And when he's able to do that, he's remarkably unjudgemental on a moral level (if very judgmental on a provincial/intellectual one). It's just...it's so hard to get him to that point where he's looking at someone else instead of himself. But yeah. Gaeta at the end and Caprica in this episode were good examples of that.

And re: the finale, no, I have loads of hopes, obvs. Mostly about Laura being awesome and Daniel being explained to be Dreilide and Sam waking up and Caprica getting a good ending and the Music getting a good explanation, etc, etc, etc but...I'm trying to manage them!

(Although yes, I kind of hope that everyone dies in some ways. I can't really explain why. I'M STILL BLOODTHIRSTY. It's a little odd...)

[daybreak777.livejournal.com]

Sixes are totally the redshirts of BSG! (Or should that be the Little Red Dresses of BSG?)
Nooooes! Sixes should totally pwn! At least one Six. Add that to the list. One of those lovely and intelligent Sixes need to totally rock and pwn one scene. Caprica, Honey!Six, Sonja, I don't care. One of them.

I think the problem with Baltar is that when he isn't self-absorbed, he's so smart, I don't think he can help but see people. . . . It's just...it's so hard to get him to that point where he's looking at someone else instead of himself. But yeah.
Yup. My friend Millari calls it Baltar's off/on button. When he's on, he's so sensitive and nonjudgmental. He can be . . . so open to listening to people. But he flips between on and off too quickly for me. She hopes that he ends with the on button on. Who knows, though? I'd like him to listen to Caprica. He owes her that much.

I will refer back to your list of hopes in two weeks. I do hope you get one of them!

I kind of hope that everyone dies in some ways. I can't really explain why. I'M STILL BLOODTHIRSTY. It's a little odd...
SO AM I. They've run some of these characters so into the ground that it would be weird for some of them to survive now. Like where can Adama go now? Laura? They have to die. Adama won't survive losing his ship. Kara just pinned her pic to the wall, she's as good as gone. I can't believe I want this but they've been telegraphing it so long. Besides perhaps in death they can finally rest. And have some peace. Maybe.

[frolicndetour.livejournal.com]

The thing that I hate most about Adama is that he shakes my confidence in the writers. He's just so awful that I feel like it can't be intentional, because no one makes their lead character this repulsive on purpose. And it's distressing that they misjudged badly enough to think this would play well. o.0

L/K has been wonderfully understated but at this point, it's been so wonderfully understated to the point that up to and including this episode I have nothing but actual honest love for their season four relationship, that I worry the inevitable L/K ending is going to feel really tacked-on and false to me.

Heh. Yeah, I love all the time they've spent with Kara/Sam this season, but the result of that has been that Kara and Lee have had such minimal interaction that it does seem awfully contrived. Oh, Sam's all-but-gone? Time for Lee to remember that they're friends! That scene was lovely though. But I do hope we see some moments of lucidity from Sam. Or, you know, more. The baseship Hybrid seems like more of a person than what we saw here. :/

But I'm getting a very strong vibe that, even if Kara doesn't die, she won't end the series on the mortal plane. Leaving her things with Helo last week and putting her picture on the Memorial Wall this week. SIGH.

GO DOWN WITH YOUR SHIP, DUDE

But can you even imagine the MELODRAMA? Ugh. I almost don't want him to die, just to spare myself EJO's scenery chewing. Though I don't suppose just not having him in the finale is really an option...

I'm starting to worry that Caprica's whole storyline about the pregnancy and the relationship with Tigh will have no payoff all, but was just one huge jerkaround in order to prove that there can't be any Cylon/Cylon babies and to get Tigh to accept his metaphorical fatherhood. Both of which could have been done without going there. Feh.

In conclusion: my hopes for the finale are still that everyone dies except Caprica. And maybe Sam.

Throw in Kara and Hera and Nicky and we're on. ;)

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Ugh I know. And the worst bit is, so many people do still seem to think he's sympathetic! I DO NOT GET IT!

I didn't so much mind Lee "remembering" he's her friend because I honestly didn't see that as so much missing this season. There's a lot of buddy cop stuff in the mutiny storyline; he clearly worries for her and Sam, she almost confides in him about her body, and after that she's busy dealing with her Coma!Husband while he's trying to rebuild the entire frakking government. So while the timing was suspcious, in the context of their friendship, I don't worry about it too much.

For me it's more just that they've really sold me that Sam is the guy Kara should be with so poor Lee's always going to see like second choice now. Which in itself could be angsty and such, but because they've been around since the beginning I doubt we'll get that. Blergh.

I think that Sammy will at least be slightly less mechanical once he's been online for a bit longer. We really only saw him babbling a tiny bit when they first turned him on and I'm not sure he's woken up at all yet. I'm at least hoping for a "lucid moment," like when the Hybrid looked right at Kara to give her her prophecy or whatever. Interviews certainly suggest that storyline isn't over yet.

I haven't so much been getting "off this mortal coil," vibes from Starbuck, but now I feel a bit daft for not getting them. I guess I'm still stuck on her just getting to be magical on this mortal coil, but I guess we'll see?

But can you even imagine the MELODRAMA? Ugh.

Look, if he survives, he will get some kind of vaguely happy ending. Except STILL with the angst. It's the season finale. He will eat the entirety of the Galactica's soundstages WHATEVER happens. At least this way we have the satisfaction of not having to factor him into our future daydreams of "what happens next."

Plus I can replay the moment of his death over and over again while laughing.

As to Caprica and Tigh...yeah. I'm hoping that Caprica gets a good ending; if she gets a good ending I'll somehow feel more mollified that she had to go through such shit in order to...not grow exactly but...

Obviously I'm not saying that LOSING YOUR CHILD is a prerequisite for character growth and I still think it's stupid. But if she somehow gets an ending that's halfway decent and kind of...acknowledges the unbelievable emotional and physical violence she's suffered in her search for redemption (because really, who has gone through more than her at this point? Who has worked harder for it than her?), I'll be, if not happy, at least somewhat mollified by the fact that Liam was the last in a long line of torments. I'll still think it was unnecessary, but at least I'll also be satisfied that it played a role in her storyline, not just Tigh's.

I'm basically just fanwanking but...I need to see the end before I know if I can save her in my own mind in spite of (or because of) the show's treatment of her.

As to the non-viability of Cylon/Cylon babies, I still don't get how Liam proved that. I mean, I know Tigh yells something about it before Liam dies, but like, really? All Liam proved is that they CAN exist since there'd never been another one. Why change your mythology from "Cylons can't have babies at all," to "Cylons can have babies but they miscarry,"? Which is kind of why I want someone to have a Cylon/Cylon baby in some flashforward or something just because otherwise the issue of Cylon/Cylon reproduction, while CONTINUALLY RAISED, is such a murky mess.

Throw in Kara and Hera and Nicky and we're on. ;)

If you get three, I get three.

I propose:

Caprica, Sam, Kara, Hera, Nicky and Leoben. Just one of him though.

[frolicndetour.livejournal.com]

And the worst bit is, so many people do still seem to think he's sympathetic! I DO NOT GET IT!

You icon looks appropriately shocked at this. :) I read someone saying they'd gotten slammed on B-Blog for saying they were sick of Adama's breakdowns. "But he's been through so much!" Only, compared to everyone else, he really hasn't. Everyone he loved was on the Galactica. Nothing he's gone through since then is by any means worse than Tigh or Laura or Kara or even Lee has, by any stretch. I think his popularity has been riding that atmo-jump for almost two seasons now. ;)

. He will eat the entirety of the Galactica's soundstages WHATEVER happens. At least this way we have the satisfaction of not having to factor him into our future daydreams of "what happens next."
Plus I can replay the moment of his death over and over again while laughing.

Heh - conceded. I probably will too. Down with the ship!

I didn't so much mind Lee "remembering" he's her friend because I honestly didn't see that as so much missing this season.

*nod* I have a lot of Kara/Lee shippers on my flist, so I've become acutely aware of every scene they haven't shared this season. *g* I totally believe the friendship has been there all along, but the fact that this scene finally happened right after Sam was hybridized makes me all cynical. (Sammy!)

I haven't so much been getting "off this mortal coil," vibes from Starbuck, but now I feel a bit daft for not getting them.

Well, I'm frantically trying to prepare myself for the possibility so I don't end up sobbing into my carpet, you know? So I may be reading to much into those moments.

As to the non-viability of Cylon/Cylon babies, I still don't get how Liam proved that.

Yeah, it was completely unnecessary, except in that it got our hopes up and then dashed them along with Caprica/the Cylons by proxy, maybe? But that doesn't seem like enough, so I hope it does have some payoff for her.

Caprica, Sam, Kara, Hera, Nicky and Leoben. Just one of him though.

So... Caprica and Leoben coparent the rugrats? Because I definitely see Kara and Sam as the fun/drunken Uncles.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

UGH. Exactly. Lee and Adama were some of the only people in the Fleet not to lose their immediate family and Lee DID lose his mother. Adama really didn't lose anyone very close to him and in fact got a girlfriend. What exactly has happened to him that's so bad? I mean, aside from the generally shit situation which affects everyone? His best friend turns out to be a robot and he decides he doesn't care? His ship is falling apart and he might have to move his flag to...another warship? His girlfriend is dying because clearly that's more about HIM than HER, and it's not like anyone else in this fleet knows what it's like to lose a loved one, OH WAIT? *sigh*

Yeah, it was completely unnecessary, except in that it got our hopes up and then dashed them along with Caprica/the Cylons by proxy, maybe? But that doesn't seem like enough, so I hope it does have some payoff for her.

Yeah. Cus like...everything that his death prevented, plotwise, was only introduced in the episode he died in (Cylons splitting off and stuff). I suppose the easiest answer is that at this point in the cycle of time, Cylons start reproducing among themselves, they split off to form their own colony, the humans reform the 12 colonies; it all happens again. By dying, Liam made them stick together and blend as a society thus frakking the cycle of time (and bringing back the Opera House visions) but... It seems a very emotionally manipulative way to tell that story since there's been so little fallout and I'd like some of that discussed please. *sigh*

So... Caprica and Leoben coparent the rugrats? Because I definitely see Kara and Sam as the fun/drunken Uncles.

Actually I was thinking of the OT3 of your icon, but that also works.

I come from the Laura Roslin school of problem solving. i.e. everything's fixable with a baby that's not actually yours. Perhaps we ought to add Kacey to the mix just to be safe.

[whatever-lj.livejournal.com]

Thanks, Becca, for this:

Mainly because it struck me as classic Laura in a lot of ways. Not that she was lying exactly, but that she knew exactly what she needed to say to make Adama do the right thing. I kind of saw that whole thing as, "Oh Lords, he needs it broken to him gently and explained in small words again, doesn't he?" And when I look at it that way, with Laura using her own story to be kind to this stuck, out-of-touch old man so that he can handle the decisions he has to make because he's never been good at seeing reality, well, then I'm calmer.

This reading of that made-of-awful scene really pulled me from the brink of despair -- I watched it again, and I can get down with your read. And I can even forgive the "...both your women.." remark a little bit, maybe. When she says "both your women" she's putting it into his language, so he can understand, because he's a big, stupid, lunkhead wa-wa, painting himself, drinking too much, baby.

I'm working on my own "alternate reading skills" so I don't have to rely on yours, lol.

But godsdammit, how can they put that damned speech into her mouth about how she never had a home in her life until these last couple of months? Makes me sick -- smart, successful, educated, personable woman on Caprica -- pining for a home?

Arggg.

And -- Hey -- can't you cause an explosion by exposing oxygen to an open flame???? And where did she come up with a frakkin' lighter anyway????

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

I'm glad to have helped, though I probably shouldn't mention that usually the more I think about things, the stronger my alternate reading ability gets until I manage to be okay with stuff I initially hated and in this instance, even with my "official retcon," I keep getting more and more hacked off with that scene. :(

On the other hand, at least I have a retcon.

I would totally have forgiven that scene, however, had she accidentally caused her own HEAD to EXPLODE by exposing oxygen to an open flame. That would have been fucking hilarious.

Or perhaps I'm still just really mad about it. Like you say, never felt at home until she had a man? *gnashes teeth*

Sigh.

*feels your pain*

[nightxade.livejournal.com]

Helo/Adama: Helo really could have punched him there. Really. But oooh how I wanted to give him hug.

Boomer: Will probably die saving Hera. *sigh*

Chief: Not clear, but I'm assuming by his absence that he is currently hiding in the crawlspaces, or he's been found and is in the brig. I'm fairly certain that Laura, Lee and Adama know why there is a not-Boomer in the brig while Boomer ran off with Hera (who probably should have acted up a little more when Boomer took her from daycare, btw).

Tigh/Ellen: I was really really hoping Tigh would point out to Ellen that she's the one who killed Liam by totally stressing out Caprica.

Gaius: Please explain to me why the bartering of Galactica's parts could be under the control of Baltar? And, you know, why is there still a quorum. I was so disappointed to see the Return of The Bickering.

Caprica: I am going to assume that all he Sixes are wearing the same clothes FOREVER to make sure we know who they are. But seriously, Caprica can lose that dress. Really. What you said about the other stuff. I'm sure that she will have a bigger endgame role though.

Laura: heehee she pulled out the weed.

Bill: OMG I was so afraid that there was going to be paint!sex. Is he directing episodes still? Cuz he's feeling very Alan Alda here.

Kara: I love the new softer, gentler Kara, but I really wanted the old Kara back to confront Gaius for betraying her. I'm rather disappointed in this follow up to the nice of the last episode. I was happy with the inconclusiveness of her angel-visitation. I'm not happy with this inconclusiveness. The Lee/Kara scene was very touching though (perky nipples aside.. gee Lee. was it cold?) and I'm totally with you on the BFF thing and love seeing her with Sam, even though she pulled a gun on him and he was all ooooh my wife is the harbinger of death *blinnk blink blink* But no goo sex, please.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Helo/Adama: ME TOO. I wanted Helo to punch him but the fact he didn't kind of made it so much more tragic; Helo just didn't even know what day it was - not that I can blame him.

Hera: My retcon for why Hera didn't act up when Boomer picked her up is that she half recognised Boomer. She recognised Athena on some level when her mother came to save her from the basestar, so even though she was much younger, she might have some instinctive recognition of Boomer since Boomer was her primary care giver for quite a long time. Sure, Boomer hated her, but I don't think until the end with that necksnapping threat, she was actively trying to hurt the kid and she was the closest Hera had to a Mom at the time, shitty though she may have been. So she might have instinctively trusted Boomer and only realised after she got THROWN INTO A BOX that things were heading seriously south.

Tigh/Ellen: I WAS HOPING FOR THAT TOO. But I doubt we'll ever get it. :(

Gaius: Yeah. I understand that he's becoming a respected preacher and stuff, but why would his name get raised at a quorum meeting? I mean, I appreciated Lee's hilarious delivery of, "GAIUS BALTAR?!" but...it was a bit forced.

Caprica: I think you mean HeadSix with that dress? I noticed that too. Cus there's always SOMETHING distracting about what Six is wearing these days. That dress was just weird. Like Tinkerbell School Play weird.

Bill: Edward James Olmos directed this episode, actually. Which explains why we got about a minute and a half of self-indulgent paintsex instead of the thirty seconds the scene needed and NOTHING TO EXPLAIN WHERE THE HELL CHIEF WAS.

Kara: I'm...okay with the inconclusiveness of this episode as long as it gets answered in the finale. But yes. RDM, YOU GOT SOME SPLAININ TO DO!

Also, in this LJ, we do not denigrate the perky nipples. EVER. ;)

Also, I kinda thought her pulling the gun on him was twistedly romantic. And I could do without seeing the goo sex. I'm just sayin'. Girl's got needs. Creepy babbling hybrids probably do too. S'why the actual hybrid gets all...excited when they jump. Poor girl can't get the real thing.

*attempts to keep straight face*

*fails*

[nightxade.livejournal.com]

*attempts to keep straight face*

*tries*

*fails*

Caprica: I liked Head!Six's dress last week, but yes, this one was weird. Also, I half hoped he'd look over and see Head!Gaius in his angel's speech because then we'd totally know Caprica was right.

As for the dresses, I meant Caprica because she's still wearing that halter top she had on when she wsa first thrown in the brig. And Sonja has something similar, but continues to wear it. I'm assuming it's for distinguishing purposes.

Hera: Ah yes, you are very right. I stand correcteded!

Helo: *gives him another hug* Go find your baby, honey. Win back your woman's heart.

[obsessive-a101.livejournal.com]

Hiya - just came here from [Bad username or site: @ livejournal.com], because I've been having a fascinating time reading episode opinions, mostly because my own is so confused and mixed up at the moment. I've seen people who love it and people who absolutely hate it (in terms of this, I'm referring to Laura), and I don't know... There are plenty of points to back up both (this from an AR shipper though I'm currently a bit annoyed with Bill - a bit). (^_^)" I feel sporadic and lost. If it comforts you however, I also read that moment where Laura convinces Bill about the "right thing" as a signature sign of her the classic Laura Roslin's steadiness as well (at least, that's how I term it XD).

From an article I read though, I did agree with the writer in 1)the superb acting still makes me immensely happy and 2) Laura Roslin has accepted everything that has happened and just trying to convince the Old Man that now. If there's something I can say that I love about Laura indefinitely is her ability to work through things. Her steadiness. That even when when she's completely off-balance (A Disquiet That Follows My Soul), she eventually finds it again even if it's in a different way. I don't know. Maybe I'm just too laid-back about it, but I... think I'll just enjoy the finale and see what happens then.

As for Caprica... I'm hoping for the best there though I did love her repsonse to Baltar.

I'm just... going to sit back now.

Sorry for late rambly thoughts and cut in, but this was basically my break from work... *scrambles back to work*

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Hey, don't apologise for rambly thoughts! This LJ is nothing but rambly thoughts from my end!

I think an interesting thing for me is the way you characterise Laura as being in a place of acceptance rather than denial. I certainly think that's a supportable reading and am very glad that you have that to hold on to, even as I sympathise with your predicament because for me, it was the sporadicness of being lost as to how to read the thing that was hardest. Now that I just...disagree, things are easier.

But I still really see her in A Disquiet Follows my Soul as in deep, deep denial. As far as I can tell, she's still refusing diloxin treatments; she's still basically committing suicide by degrees. Even if it is for health reasons and this time she has Lee instead of Baltar, in season two, she was issuing executive orders from her death bed. This Laura...has no purpose. Her "peace" if she has it, strikes me as entirely constructed, based on denial and desperation. All that's left is to pretend to calmness; to grab what she can, while she can, but without any of the honest, joyful validity of those emotions as expressed in Unfinished Business because here, and now, really, there's nothing left to grab that doesn't mean letting go of something more important.

I can't really justify why I feel that way except...that's what the text whispers to me, constantly. Laura is broken. She broke when she burned her scriptures. There's no plan. There's no point. She gave up and she doesn't care and now she's going through the motions and trying somewhat because she's not completely callous, but...somehow, the Laura I loved doesn't live there anymore.

But I do agree: the finale has the potential to finally break her away from Bill and actually give us some stuff from her perspective. So here's hoping it actually...does that.