BSG: Daybreak I

[beccatoria]

To be perfectly honest, guys, I was kinda bored. Well, that's harsh. I mean, at any other point in the series, I'd've been cool with it. But like, I'm too stressed by what will happen next week and whether I'll get answers to stuff to really enjoy this slow ride. If the finale delivers I'll probably enjoy it more in retrospect.

Although I really hope that the flashbacks end up with a, well, point to them next episode. Either a plot-related reason we're seeing this, or a stronger thematic reason then "we thought it'd be nice to look back at the beginning since we're at the end." Cus, I mean, that's a good enough reason to want to write it, but within the context of the whole package, I will want to feel there was a good reason to see these flashbacks instead of more of what was going on now. So like, cycle of time plottiness please, or at least something that feels cyclical enough to justify its own existence.

Which currently, this doesn't. And also the opening was trying very hard to be all like Kobol's Last Gleaming I or Occupation or Someone to Watch Over Me but really it just felt like random "pretty" shots from later in the episode for no real reason.

I actually mostly enjoyed the flashbacks. I mean, I have NO IDEA what the fuck was going on with that pigeon or what the significance was supposed to be (I AM BECOME LEEMO, DESTROYER OF PIGEONS!) nor was it intriguing enough for me to want to try and work it out, so I'm just going to laugh at the fact Lee got drunk and attacked a pigeon with a broom.

Also I assume that the very brief flashback to Adama (and thankfully it at least wasn't a stacheback!) was in reference to his mission in Hero. Dear god I was hoping we'd never have to revisit that episode again.

But I did like the Baltar and Laura stuff a lot. I mean, there's something melodramatic about, in the penultimate episode, suddenly giving Laura a tragic family backstory, but ZOMG it was SO MUCH BETTER HANDLED than suddenly giving Lee an abusive childhood or making Adama quasi-responsible for the start of the Cylon war. Possibly down to the fact that a) it was Mary McDonnell acting in it and b) I was so damn relieved to have Laura back. With hair. And no Adama. Giggling.

I'm inclined to say that the pregnant sister was kind of overkill. I get it; the continuation of Laura's family - everyone wiped out in a second (assuming her mother was already dead?). She already lost everything before the attacks ever happened. I'm not...I'm neither for nor against this story for her. I don't feel that undermines her emotional response to the apocalypse or heightens it. It's just...more information. And confirmation that this show really hates babies!

Unless...unless I suppose the flashbacks are all about the people we lost aren't they? Laura and her family. Lee and Zak. Kara and Zak. Adama being sent out on the mission he at least feels lost everyone everything. Even Baltar and Caprica sort of. Even if she's still alive. Even Sam and his perfect moments: he has them now, possibly, maybe, but is he alive enough to understand them? Does he miss that life? Is his existence one perfect shot? (WAKE UP, SAMMY! *cries*)

And again, maybe that's my failing for not seeing it until now, but that's what you get when you make someone as wound up about the finale as I am watch an episode as slow as this.

There are such lovely moments here, but I'm too tense to appreciate them.

I pretty much loved everything about Caprica owning the universe while drinking in every scene. I loved the "You know I've forgotten your name..." thing. And how his not knowing it ends up equally her choice. I imagine her liking that. Having it make her feel powerful, and in a way, like she's being more honest with him, becuase she doesn't actually have one. It's like a negative commentary on the name everyone else gave her and all that name means. The Sixes are the most individual of all the models; always fracturing off and naming themselves. The most unique of all of them, always tried to slide quietly into the background. But never could. Because Sixes are always fracturing off and getting named.

Also this episode proved that they CAN still do a not-awful job on her wig so like, WTF is going on with the terrible "present day" monstrosity? Also I really hope that her desire to fix this broken, complicated old man was NOTHING AT ALL LIKE her desire to fix broken, complicated old Saul Tigh because, for serious. EWW.

I have no idea what they're trying to do with Gaius. First, to deal with the political issues he (Paulla) raised - I don't get them. I don't understand why Lee didn't blow the premise out of the water.

If I understood Paulla correctly, she was claiming that followers of Baltarism now made up a majority on over half the ships in the Fleet (which first, eew. Polytheism > Monotheism). But...why the hell should that mean they should get their own representative in the government? Aren't they represented by the Captains of the Ships they're on like every other frakking person left alive?

I mean, I also have some issues about the fact the new Quorum is made up of presumably unelected Captains. I think breaking it down by ship is a good idea but I think the representatives from each ship should be elected. Even so, presumably the job of the ship's captain is to represent everyone on board that ship. This means that the Baltarians ALREADY have a lot of political power and representation. If they're being ignored and slighted by their legal representatives, then that's something they should redress via, like, voting and shit and lobbying the government to protect their interests/assign them a representative who better represents the interests of the people on the ship. Not by just deciding that they should get extra special representation.

Cus then, where does it stop? Do the Sons of Aries get a seat? How about the Mithraists? The traditional Polytheists? The Saggitaron religion? Does it stop with religion? How about unions? Or fucking fan clubs? Or the Twos, Sixes and Eights, should they each get their own representative? What about the deck gang, or the pilots? What about the remains of the Colonial Bar Association?

ALL of these groups deserve political representation and...none of them do. They're made up of individuals. Individuals get votes. A self-identified group of individuals can use that power to great effect as the Evangelical Religious Right have shown in the United States. As the Trade Unions showed in pre-Thatcher Britain (eta: as heyiya rightly snagged me about, this isn't strictly a good definition of the role of Trade Unions, but...I hope you get what I'm getting at - politically interested groups that excercise power via the individual votes of its membership and such)/eta. But you don't just say, "Oh, hi, you have more than X people who identify as part of your club: HAVE A SEAT IN THE GOVERNMENT!"

So like, bluntly, Gaius, your whole point is bullshit. And I don't know why Lee didn't call him on it.

But I did very much like Lee calling him on the fact that Gaius Baltar doesn't even pass Gaius Baltar's test of moral turpitude. And I agree with him.

And...weirdly the writers seem to too. Because I STILL think that even though Baltar doesn't think he's doing this for selfish reasons, he kind of is. "I'm not even saying it'll be me," isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for it to be someone else, especially when he then goes on to talk as if obviously it'll be him forever more.

Though I also think the writers might be trying to reform him.

I have complicated feelings about that.

I'm willing to accept some level of "redemption" for Baltar as long as it doesn't try to whitewash his previous actions or imply that he's suddenly some saint. Just that he's not quite the frakker he used to be and he's trying to make up for it instead of trying to do everything, including making up an entirely new religion, so he doesn't haveto make up for it.

I think this episode managed to tow that line reasonably well. If we end with him trying to do the right thing and everyone being hilariously suspicious of him, I'm mostly okay with that.

I totally thought he was gonna volunteer for the mission. He kept glancing over at Caprica. But at the end he's still standing on the other side.

My hypothesis, since I can't believe they'll leave a major cast member out of this mission, is that he'll show up or volunteer late on his own or something, trying to impress everyone with his selflessness because he didn't want his harem to follow his example/Lee to think he was being "selfless" instead of selfless again.

And then Caprica can be all, "That's wonderful Gaius, but your harem had all the GUNS. We could have really done with those." And then Gaius can accidentally shoot himself in the leg.

And that's mostly it. A few other random points:

- I'd make snarky comments about Adama's "YOU'RE MY DAUGHTER!" stuff and how it really loses some weight when he's already thrown that term around and revoked it like five times, and how he doesn't treat her like a daughter, but then I remember Lee, and figure, no, he's pretty much treating the twins equally. Plus I'm tired, and couldn't even mutter the energy to laugh at his pompous speech, so you can all just pretend I blew my top about him again, okay? ;)

- I really did love Laura volunteering for the mission. I mean, okay, practically, what exactly is a terminally ill cancer patient gonna do for the mission, but dude, she almost felt like my Laura again. And I just love, love, loved the way Starbuck put her arm around her and held her up.

- Ellen and Tory! OMG that was adorkable. Ellen just cut through all of Tory's shit in the most endearing and loving way ever of saying, "Sweetheart, you're TOTALLY coming on this suicide mission with me." It was...all of ten seconds, but perhaps the ten seconds that have so far best combined Original!Ellen and Cylon!Ellen.

- I really want to hug Helo. I mean, I get why Athena's the way she is, I really do. This isn't about taking sides in an frakked up situation where taking sides should be the last thing anyone has to do. But it's Helo, still with that broken hope that he's gonna get Hera back and everything will be all right again that breaks me.

- Helo would never have put Hera's picture on the wall. It must have been Athena, which again is heartbreaking. Especially since she put her own photo up there with her. Athena wasn't there for the volunteering but I can't imagine she won't be going.

- I really hope Adama told someone to pick up all the pictures from the wall even if there was no one there to claim them. They ought to be kept.

- I find it highly distressing that season 4.5 has now given me Laura Roslin raining down destruction on her own people from the helm of a Cylon Basestar, and drenched under a fountain with her own hair and that NEITHER INSTANCE was anywhere near as hot as it should have been. I hope Ron Moore feels appropriately guilty about that.

And, that's it. There was good stuff in there, but I can't lie and say I wasn't disappointed that basically NOTHING HAPPENED that we didn't know from the promo.

Comments

[daybreak777.livejournal.com]

I was so damn relieved to have Laura back. With hair. And no Adama. Giggling.
Yay, my Laura! Your Laura. LAURA! That was so delightful. And after she got the news and stood up. Laura. Damn, Mary is so good.

Just that he's not quite the frakker he used to be and he's trying to make up for it instead of trying to do everything, including making up an entirely new religion, so he doesn't haveto make up for it.
Hee! I so agree with this. I liked Gaius in this ep because in both flashback and present day he seemed to be trying. And I think that's all he's capable of really. Trying. I think it might push it a bit too far for him to actually succeed in changing or anything. But I don't know. I still think he and Caprica will go get that baby.

Aww, you are all tense and tired. I'm not tense anymore. This is the side effect of zen. Whatever happens, happens. I am a little sad because I'm not really that sure my two pilots will get proper sexin' closure anymore but I'm even letting that go a bit.

One more week without promos for me. That's been hard. But worth it. And Mary. She did look good in that flashback scene thought I didn't like her dress. And Helo. Do you think Helo will make it? All bets are off for me on any of these people.

But even if Laura goes, I think we are seeing real!Laura once more. Good. :-)

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Yes, Mary McDonnell still owns a significant part of my soul. I just hope she gets more good stuff like this in the finale.

I wish I had your zen! I've been trying to be zen, I really have, but it's hard. This show has been with me for five years. It's a long time. In some ways it all hinges on two hours next week.

I can't even imagine what it's like going spoiler free, even in terms of promos. I think I'd be a nervous wreck. I really like that people can forewarn me if an episode will upset me or make me squee or whatever. Especially in a season like this which has been SO KIND and SO CRUEL to me at the same time. I NEED THE SPOILER SAFETY NET!!11! ;)

I don't know what's going to happen to Helo (neither do I know spoilers for his fate, or, well ANY real spoilers for next week sadly, so don't worry, my spec is not skewed in any direction). He'd certainly make a stoic noble sacrifice if they wanted to hammer home the seriousness of the situation without killing a main name, but at the same time, I really, really hope he makes it. He's been through so much these last few weeks especially.

[coffeejunkii.livejournal.com]

i had similar feelings about the episode, and i also think it's due to the anxiety over next week. i said in my post, i...can't quite decide if this was a really strong episode or the most indulgent piece of twattery ron moore has indulged in to date. it all rides on next week. the entire season so far has felt like set up for the next two hours, and....gah. what if they are all action-action-action, the end, and any of the lingering questions just don't get answered???

i hope the flashbacks will be significant because otherwise i wish we'd gotten them earlier. like, last season or something.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes that's exactly how I feel! And I think the answer hinges on next week.

I'm just, so over the action at this point. I don't care about whatever big assault they're planning. I'm gonna spend the whole of the firefight tense and irked that they're not getting on with the answers. *cries*

*crosses fingers*

[coffeejunkii.livejournal.com]

i'm actually excited about some action because it's a large part of what drew me to bsg in the first place, and we haven't seen any fighting for some time. but i also want to have answers and character moments. i just hope rdm can pull it off.

this anxiety really reminds me of the ends of s2 and 3, when i thought all the eps focusing on the election/on baltar's trial were so tedious, but upon rewatching them, i liked them a lot better because i knew where things were headed and i was less driven by my need to know things.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

I guess I would have to confess that I do enjoy the action too. But at this point, I think that like the trial stuff and election stuff for you, the action is something I can enjoy later when I'm not stressing over the outcome?

But I do totally get what you mean, and I feel exactly the same way. I don't think I'm really going to be able to get any of the nuances until I've seen the end because...everything's so up in the air. I can't begin the process of forgiving the stuff I don't like, or letting it redeem stuff I thought I didn't like, or squeeing about the stuff I do like because IT MIGHT ALL BE TOTALLY DIFFERENT THIS TIME NEXT WEEK!

And stuff!

[coffeejunkii.livejournal.com]

totally. that's why i read the last chapter of hp: the deathly hallows first because there would have been no way for me to enjoy the book otherwise. but tv doesn't quite work that way [well, at least not for me since i'll be watching it live on east coast time].

i think i'm also just a little bit in denial over it being over next week. such a crazy thought!

[obsessive-a101.livejournal.com]

I had fun with this ep, I really did. (^_^)

And Laura's backstory... that's actually the one they gave her in the "supposed" Series Bible, but it was supposed to have happened much earlier (when she was 15), but I guess they changed it to fit what they wanted?

And theis episode I think... is an interesting lead up to the finale (can't wait!). I was also quite intrigued by the Baltar/Caprica backstory, and there was something about the end there that really caught my attention and made me understand something a bit more about Baltar.

Anyway, Lee chasing the pigeon made me laugh, but I'm wondering if there wasn't some greater symbolism to it. Someone also wondered whether this was the scene following the news that Zak died.

There's much more pondering left to do, but mostly, I'm completely and utterly zen about waiting for the finale (or maybe not). I'm going to enjoy the ride. (^_^)

LAURAAAAAAAAAAA!!! Mary McDonnell will officially break me with her acting skills. Just... she looks and ACTS like she's dying in this subtle, totally-not-overdramatic way that makes my heart twinge.

[asta77.livejournal.com]

And Laura's backstory... that's actually the one they gave her in the "supposed" Series Bible, but it was supposed to have happened much earlier (when she was 15), but I guess they changed it to fit what they wanted?

A HA! I knew it was part of the series bible, but I also recalled the deaths happening earlier. I always assumed it was why Laura had to take care of her dying mother herself. I suppose an argument could be made that she did it because she was the eldest and wished to protect her baby sisters from having to deal with all that. And perhaps her parents were divorced and that's why her father wasn't taking care of her mother?

[obsessive-a101.livejournal.com]

I was wondering about that at first as well. (^_^) But no, those arguments fit. The original "bible" story line had it so that her mother never really recovered from the shock of losing her husband and two older daughters as well (and Laura takes care of her for the next 20 years), but I'm assuming that they needed for this to work, so they boosted up the age and made Laura the oldest instead of the youngest. It also gives a somewhat socially and personally oriented look at Laura's background.

*chuckles* It not so much the "bible" as a set of "guidelines" I guess.

[asta77.livejournal.com]

Hee! Maybe Ron is a 'Pirates' fan. ;)

Yeah, I thought Laura was supposed to be the youngest, but I'm fine if the bible was just used as a guideline. Series evolve and what made sense five years ago may not make sense now.

[pellucid.livejournal.com]

I also wondered if her sisters were actually half-sisters. The picture in this episode showed dad + three girls but no mom, which perhaps suggested divorced parents (though not necessarily, obviously), and the sisters both seemed enough younger than Laura (and looked rather like each other but not hugely like Laura) that I wondered if they might have been from a second marriage. If Laura's mother wasn't their mother, that might explain a lot of how Laura ended up taking care of her mother by herself. *shrugs* I don't know that it matters a lot, but the pieces seemed to fit for me.

[asta77.livejournal.com]

Interesting thought and it works for me! :)

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Ah, interesting that it's in the show bible. I think it might have worked a little better for her character at 15, but I'm not horribly against the changes they made. Although it does feel a little last-minute melodramatic. Still, I'm not complaining too much if it gives Mary McDonnell such great material to work with.

Can I ask what caught your attention and what you understand more about Baltar now?

I don't think that the pigeon scene can be his response to Zak's death because not only do I think he's wearing the same clothes, but also, the whole "I dare you, I double-dog dare you," sounded happy-after-party-stumbling-home drunk not devastated-dead-brother drunk.

I think the whole thing mainly felt so weird to me because I felt that scene was supposed to be incredibly symbolic when actually it was just...weird. Or the symbolism was totally lost on me.

I wish I had your zen! It's just been such a large part of my life and season 4.5 has been such an uncomfortable mix of brain-breakingly awesome and brain-breakingly disappointing that I don't know which way is up...

[obsessive-a101.livejournal.com]

The symbolism of the bird... I didn't quite get it either but I had a flashback to Emily Dickinson's "Hope is the thing with feathers -" and also the fact that this bird was not trapped but not seizing its freedom either. In a way, it is sort of like Lee, not knowing exactly what he wanted or anything, but coming back drunk (from a party most likely since I did catch what he was saying and I agree ^_^), and just - Who is he? Why is he doing what he does? Anyway, not sure if it makes any sense but those were the sort of places my mind took me to. LOL!

As for Baltar, the scenes, particularly the last one with Caprica Six, really nailed something for me even though it's been part of his character from the beginning.

In a way, Baltar was ashamed, and he was very much the child still seeking approval. He still is. He's the sort of character who needs his ego stroked, and this eventually leads to the destruction of the colonies. However, he also does genuinely try to care, to love, but it's as if... his ego always gets in the way, and he doesn't learn.

The thing that really struck me was Baltar's facial expression (and James Callis was great with this)when Caprica told him that his father was happy, that it doesn't take all that much to make a person happy sometimes. In a way, that moment really defines who Baltar is: he's grateful to a certain extent because his father had been an unwanted burden (even though, subconciously, I thought that he wanted that burden), but he's also surprsingly disappointed and discomfitted by the fact that he, in all of his genius and riches, as the man's son, could not make his father happy.

Ah. I'm being rambly again. (-_-)"

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

I'm feeling super-zen about there not being enough time for answers/plot/mysticism because the show has given me back the character moments I love so much.

That being said--Lee and the pigeon was ridiculous WTFery.

And yes, this show totally hates babies. And eats them.

I too hope Adama ordered those pictures picked up, and was glad Kara's reaction to his "I love my dead gay daughter!" was very understated and not that interested. Hee.

I totally cheered for Lee giving Gaius some guff about meeting his own moral code. He's so gonna go on the mission.

Helo really needs a hug. And Kara still needs a hug. Perhaps they could hug each other and solve the universe.

Oh and Laura of course. I wondered how you and Chaila and Pellucid would feel about this Laura. I really thought it brought home how she never truly felt fulfilled by politics and that's why her comment about feeling finally at home with Bill/family didn't bug me last week. It was a very private Laura we got to see.

I was also very moved by Kara simply putting her arm around Laura and putting a hand out for her to take. I loved that.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

I think I'd be more appreciative of the character moments if I weren't so paranoid that the show wasn't going to leave room for the answers. Because this is a show with a showrunner who frequently says things like, "well I don't think we need to know the reason for that," and frankly, a lot of the time I agree, but this is an instance when if I don't, it'll be...a real serious problem.

Like I said - I think I would have loved this episode (well, with a few WTFs!) if it weren't for its placement in the season. And if the finale delivers, I very much expect to look back on this and think it's great that the show spent so much of its final half season on quiet character moments like this.

AHAHAHAA, yes. It definitely eats babies. If the babies survive being born, then they're generally okay, except they're constantly kidnapped, made seriously ill and retconned to be far less awesome than they initially appeared to be.

Also word to Kara's response being to quietly walk back over to turn on Sam. I know that probably I'm supposed to think she was quietly overcome with emotion, but in my head she's thinking, "Dude, my IMAGINARY DAD was more supportive than you."

I think the thing about Laura is that I never felt she was overwhelmingly fuelled by a desire to be in politics either. It was that she stepped up and that she did that out of a fierce love for her people. While the timing of her political retirement and other developments was perhaps unfortunate in a meta sense, in terms of her character it was her apparent lack of care for the fate of the Fleet that jarred with me most awfully. It's less the suggestion that it wasn't a job she wanted and more the fact that a key part of her character, to me, was always that she took responsibility, always and constantly. It was what kept me with her through...banning abortion and stealing elections and stealing babies and executing people without a trial. I didn't mind her in the Unfinished Business flashbacks because she wasn't letting anyone down by wanting that for herself. Now...or certainly back during the immediate aftermath of Earth when she wasn't so sick as to be unfit for duty, she really is.

And to me, this episode kind of showed that, well, she DID have a home and family before, and that makes her comments to Bill last episode even more suspect.

But...enough moaning! I liked her here! Because she wasn't making decisions motivated by Bill, she was making decisions motivated by Laura Roslin! Yay! ;)

[asta77.livejournal.com]

Re: The Baltarian Representation – the argument didn’t hold water for me either. It would be like the Catholics or Mormons or any other group demanding representation in the U.S.Congress alongside elected state representatives. My feeling is Lee’s Quorum of ship's captains is not a long term solution, but a better one than having representatives from colonies that no longer existed. The people have intermingled over the years and have formed their own communities within each ship. Down the road, assuming there are survivors, they’ll need to look at elections and people choosing a representative from each ship or maybe even settlements if they find a habitable planet. Perhaps Paula felt the Cylons had a voice in the government so Baltar’s group should as well, but Sonja was the chosen representative of not just the Cylons, but the baseship.

But I did very much like Lee calling him on the fact that Gaius Baltar doesn't even pass Gaius Baltar's test of moral turpitude. And I agree with him.

Me too. :) And it seemed to have a genuine effect on Baltar. Baltar really was maneuvering to protect his own position. Even if he wasn’t the representative of his followers, we know he’d be pulling the strings and telling them what to say. It’s still very much All About Him.

but then I remember Lee, and figure, no, he's pretty much treating the twins equally.

Adama’s declaration was laughable, but keeping in character with his obliviousness and treating his kids like crap.

But it's Helo, still with that broken hope that he's gonna get Hera back and everything will be all right again that breaks me.

Yeah, and Athena is telling him things will never be the same regardless of what happens and he just can’t believe it.

Helo would never have put Hera's picture on the wall. It must have been Athena, which again is heartbreaking. Especially since she put her own photo up there with her. Athena wasn't there for the volunteering but I can't imagine she won't be going.

I think Athena is convinced that Hera is dead or soon will be and a large part of her died with her. Actually, her life as she knew it, wanted it, is at an end. She could barely look at Helo and if Hera is lost then so is their life together.

Athena may have been among the volunteers. It may have been another Eight, but, in the crowd, I saw an Eight with the same hair and head hanging low and I just assumed it was her.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

I'm really glad that I'm not the only one who found Baltar's argument really frakking weird. I'm still ticked that Lee didn't call him on it. I mean, they could so easily have made that scene about something less ludicrous. Like Baltar petitioning to be a legally recognised religion with whatever standard political perks that comes with, which they could totally make up, or something. I don't know. But something better than this!

And you're right - I rewatched the scene and there's an Eight in Colonial Fatigues looking like absolute crap in the background, which is obviously Athena. I was just surprised by the lack of specific close-up and didn't notice it at first. Thanks for the catch!

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

None of the ship's captains are Baltarian? I cry foul!

Also, re: Baltar not going. I think that was his selfless act. Because EVERYTHING IN HIM was screaming at him to go...and he didn't. And they're all fucked, obviously, because they NEED him, but when he shows up next week it will be Same Old Baltar, and everything will be okay (and screwed).

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

It's a good point, I'd be very surprised if there wasn't a single Baltarian ship captain. Especially given that Captain last week wanting to know what he made of the Galactica situation.

It's interesting that you view this as his selfless act - you could really be right. I can't quite bring myself to believe he did really want to go on a probably suicide mission though, since this is Baltar we're talking about.

I think it's interesting in that if he had gone, it would have looked like grandstanding, potentially gotten his cultists killed, and like another of those Gaius Baltar acting out and not considering the consequences in order to seem magnanimous moments.

If he doesn't go, it looks like he's looking out for his own skin.

I mean, it's totally his own fault everyone views him like that, but really, I'm not sure there's ANYTHING he could do at this point, however selfless, that wouldn't seem like a calculated "selfless" move to buy himself credibility.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

It's a good point, I'd be very surprised if there wasn't a single Baltarian ship captain. Especially given that Captain last week wanting to know what he made of the Galactica situation.

EXACTLY. Watch your own damn show, people!

It's interesting that you view this as his selfless act - you could really be right. I can't quite bring myself to believe he did really want to go on a probably suicide mission though, since this is Baltar we're talking about

Thing is? He knows it's not a suicide mission. At least, not for him. Because Chip!Six has never lied to him. Ever. By going, he commits a "selfless" act and saves the cheerleader child, and by staying, he commits a selfless act and dooms them all. Classic Gauis Baltar!

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

I dunno. I really do think that Head Six has lied to him. I mean, in the mini, when Baltar wants to frame Doral as a Cylon she's all, "I haven't seen him at any of the Cylon parties." Even if we handwave the literalness of her claims that Hera is theirs as metaphorical, she still claims that "a child will be born" in the cylon brig and does things like tell Gaius that if he steps forward he "won't be harmed," before he gets the crap beaten out of him with the butt of a rifle.

I don't doubt that she's always being truthful in larger intentions, sort of. But she does lie.

Plus I'm not sure that Baltar even knows he's supposed to save Hera in the Opera House. His own visions have been far more vague and when Laura mentioned he was in hers, he didn't seem to know about them.

In this episode all Head Six says is, "humanity's final chapter is about to be written and you will be its author." So like...we could also take that to mean he should stay where it's safe - cus the survivors/winners write the history books? I mean...I don't think that's entirely it. And also I do like the idea that Baltar is frakking them over by being selfless, because like you say that's both classic Baltar and HILARIOUS.

I'm just...very wary of really trusting Head Six and her scary, Sixey agenda...

[rjsteamboat76.livejournal.com]

it's funny but i got mad at one of the flashbacks. i thought it was going to be a nice-and rare- glimpse into kara and zak's relationship, and of course it turns in to a k/l flashback, the first time they met. pissed me off heh. *pelts writer's with bricks*

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

I dunno, I liked it. I thought it was a glimpse into Kara and Zak's relationship. Lee and Kara are the main cast members so yes the scene focused on them both and I'm sure K/L shippers will see something there.

But shippy or not their relationship with each other is significant, and I didn't mind the way the scene played. I thought it was more about both of their relationships with Zak and if anything, highlighted that as a connective issue between the two. Not necessarily a romantic issue.

I think that there will be some amount of closure for Kara and Lee, and have for a long time thought th writers were heading for a K/L ending. But I'm quietly hoping, and am starting to feel it's a possibly realistic hope, that they'll end with on a more ambiguous note. Like the scene in the memorial hall next week. Friendly, trusting, not currently romantic but there if people want to see it?

[rjsteamboat76.livejournal.com]

hmmm, never thought of it that way. pretty good point. thanks. =D

[nightxade.livejournal.com]

Adama: What you said about the daughter thing. You know I used to be all about the Adama, and could even forgive him for being human and being tired of having the weight of all of this on his shoulders, but oh how I have come to hate him for being so tired and thereby being negligent and never seeing how he has destroyed so much with his own hands, even when Gaeta goes and clearly points it out to him. He could have just said: Okay Lee, I need you to be Admiral now, m'kay?

The Flashbacks: I didn't know what to think of them, initially. Interesting insights into some of he major players (well, except for drunkening bird fighting.. that didn't tell me much about Lee), but did they really give us much now? Was this the place for them? Then it dawned on me that they felt very much like pre-obituaries of sorts. Foreshadowing similar to Lee and Baltar's confrontation. I'm hoping that Baltar's endgame is not going to be so blatant as Lee's point makes out.

Athena: She truly hates Helo and no, he doesn't get it. It isn't just about Hera being gone and maybe dead. It's about Helo frakking Boomer and not realizing it and then letting her go get Hera. She blames him for everything and he doesn't, in his manly way, realize that bringing Hera home won't make everything okay.

Tory: Not just Ellen pulling her along, but the kicker was Tyrol's line about her having something better to do.

The Tighs and Caprica: Frakkers. Caprica all alone, but the Tighs are a happy couple again. That really pisses me off.

Tyrol: Not taking an ounce of responsibility for what he did. Pissed me off to hear him blaming the Eights for his actions, though that of course was foreshadowing to what poor ignorant Helo will deal with when he returns with or without Hera.

The endgame: I want to be invested in it, but I'm not feeling the vibes of such a big suicide mission. It's just. First its implausible. Big old speech about dying to save a little girl. There is no real reason for any but a few to go, so I just cannot buy all the people who did. I'm assuming it was just enough people to man the Galatica so that the writers can justify a fitting boom-ending for her. *sigh* i'm sad that I feel this way about the finale. I hope that they prove me wrong.

Simon: YAY! Simon was there!

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I remember back in season three when my hatred of Adama was some kind of weird outlier in fandom. But more and more people just seem to be getting totally disillusioned with him. All the more funny since the show itself seems to be completely unaware of how unsympathetic he is!

I feel exactly the same way about you about the Flashbacks (plus, dude, it was a flashback and ADAMA HAD NO MUSTACHE! NO WONDER the show is ending!). They were really great and I really liked them but I couldn't help but wonder if now was really the time for them. Finding out how Baltar and Caprica met is great. But I think I would rather have found out what the frak is going on with her and the Tighs (OMG I AM WITH YOU ON THAT ONE! Seriously, why has no one hugged this woman?!)

Finding out how Lee and Kara met is great, but I would rather have seen more of what she was doing with Anders, or how Lee's running the government (though I guess there was a fair amount of that here).

Laura's backstory, likewise, was good, and I guess was a nice way to give her something to do except DIE, but again, Opera House would have been funner.

Regarding Tyrol, I have to disagree though. I think his attitude is awful and bitter and, ironically JUST LIKE BOOMER, but I do think he's taking responsibility. I didn't hear it as him blaming the Eights. He said, "I'm a 2,000 year old idiot who can't learn a simple lesson." And when he referred to the machines, he said "we", including himself. He blames the Eights for what they did, but conflates Boomer with all of them, and blames himself for falling for it. Which, without the conflation of Boomer with all Eights because it's easier for him to be angry with everyone, including himself and to dehumanify everyone, including himself, is a reasonable summary of the situation. But yeah. He's being a bitter jackass right now.

I do know what you mean about the mission. If Adama had just said, "We're going to rescue a little girl, btw, she's in what we think is the enemy's secret headquarters and we know where it is; it's our chance to strike a massive blow against them, or would you rather sit here and die of starvation once our food runs out and we still haven't found a habitable planet?"

THAT I would have bought more.

Also, SIMON! He WAS there! And for once, it was DORAL who got all the exposition lines cut instead of him! I thought he looked a little dubious about the whole disection deal too. I mean, not enough to not stick a tube in Hera, but I do wonder if maybe he'll side with Boomer next week and have a change of heart and help her escape or something? Or am I demonstrating faith in the writers giving him a motive again? *sigh*

[nightxade.livejournal.com]

And also also! (I should be sleeping right now, but this came to me) the whole thing about the mission is really really bugging me. First of all, the mutineers have been given a pass if they go. Um. So we have a bunch of people disenchanted with the Old Man and hating Cylons so we give them this choice:

1. Stay in the brig while Roslin, Adama and Lee* go on an apparent suicide mission, which means the people you mutinied against are away and probably will die which means very likely that you could get out of jail free very soon.

or.

2. Go on a suicide mission to save a halfbreed toaster from a bunch of toasters with toasters fighting alongside us**, lead by the guy whom we don't believe in anymore and who has shown very poor judgment and leadership ability.

*Adama stopped Cottle from joining the fight because the fleet needs a doctor. The fleet also needs a strong leader in the absense of the two who believe they are so but don't want the job. Lee should not have been permitted to join the mission. Because guess what? That now means that Baltar gets his seat in the politics after all.

**The Final Five are going, and wither goest they, goest the rebel Cylons. Are the Cylons going to leave the Basestar and go aboard the dying Galactica? Or, since this is a pending battle, are they going to take the Basestar for that needed firepower, thereby leaving the Fleet defenseless and hoping Cavil doesn't figure that out?

****

Tyrol: Sorry that didn't come out right. I did get that he blamed himself and he had that " I shoulda known better " but I felt that his bitterness leaned too heavily on accusing the Eights of being treacherous and tricksy, which means, as much as he might blame himself, there's also a lot of "well come on! she even imagined our daughter! how could I not have fallen for it??" He did refer to himself as a 2000 year old machine, but towards the end, there was a greater separation I thought. I haven't rewatched, but I thought there was a distinct "they" in his words that provided some separation for himself.

[pellucid.livejournal.com]

I certainly take your point about how nothing happened here. I really enjoyed the flashbacks, and I like them even more after reading Chaila's take on how they're all about choices and destiny, the things people planned to do and didn't, the decisions they made to bring them to where they were at the end of the world. Is it choice? Is it fate? Does it matter? Action and reaction, as Anders said in his own flashback. So I found a lot to enjoy here, but I was a little frustrated that it didn't even feel like this was proper set-up. And how in the world they're going to do what they need to do in the finale I have NO IDEA!!!

(I AM BECOME LEEMO, DESTROYER OF PIGEONS!)

Bwahahahahaha!!!

I was so damn relieved to have Laura back. With hair. And no Adama. Giggling.

I KNOW!!!!!!!! I almost cried because I was JUST SO HAPPY TO SEE HER!!!!! Oh, LAURA!!!!!

I really did love Laura volunteering for the mission. I mean, okay, practically, what exactly is a terminally ill cancer patient gonna do for the mission, but dude, she almost felt like my Laura again. And I just love, love, loved the way Starbuck put her arm around her and held her up.

YES! I loved what she did and I lovedlovedlovedomg! the little scene between her and Kara. And I think that this particular terminally ill cancer patient might have quite a lot to do for this mission, given that the dying leader will know the truth of the Opera House and all that good stuff!!! (I hope I'm not getting my hopes up again...)

Caprica was SO AWESOME in the flashbacks!!!!!! LOVE!!!!

And I agree that Baltar's representation argument just seemed really stupid. If Paulla was right that the followers made up the majority on a number of ships, it seems like they'd be in a stronger political position if they went through their respective captains/ship representatives, like Lee's new system calls for, than if they had one single representative. If the new representatives really are supposed to be speaking on behalf of their constituents on the ship, and the majority of the constituents on multiple (half?) the ships are Baltarians, doesn't that result in a lot of clout?

I have a feeling, though, that the entire thing was a pointless device so that we'd get the confrontation between Lee and Gaius in which Gaius admits that he doesn't even live up to his own standards, so that consequently he would stay behind from the mission. So that he can then play whatever role he's supposed to play next week that he could only have done from back in the fleet. I'm rather frustrated with the sense that they're just moving the chess pieces into place at this point rather than thinking about whether it makes any sense, but whatever. Not much I can do at this point except handwave.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Yes - I found Chaila's reading to be a real reassurance that thematically these flashbacks do fit in. But I also still worry about next week. At this rate, we'll get an entire hour of them PLANNING the assualt, and entire hour OF the assault, and no answers about anything. I'm gonna look like a fool when next week blows me away and they answer EVERYTHING, but I can't help it. *bites nails* Five years, man. All ending next weekend.

And yeah, I totally agree that she'll have Stuff to Do, but I guess I just meant, I liked that no one tried to stop her with practical arguments like, you don't know how to fire a gun and you'll slow us down because you can't even walk at more than a mile an hour.

(Oh, random point, I really loved the detail that the volunteers had to be over 15. In some ways perhaps it shouldn't resonate so much with me, since in the UK we are legal adults at barely more than that - 16. But at the same time, it was a really stark reminder of how young people are adults now, of how few there are left, of how standards slide. One thing I have appreciated about 4.5 is the sense of entropy, decay, hopelessness and loss, and...community at the bottom of that because there's nothing else left. I really do feel they're adrift in a sea of stars, clinging to a few life rafts and hoping the waves don't rip them apart, in a way I never really felt before. Even though they were always refugees, on the run, one way or another.)

I think you're right about the pointless Baltarism device, though. Which is frustrating because there are so many better ways they could have done it. Off the top of my head, petitioning for some legal religious status, or, frak, arguing that the civilian population of Galactica should have a "captain" too. (OMG DUDE, if they all moved to the basestar, Sonja the Six would represent all the human civilians as well, maybe!)

I'm confused about Gaius' choice though. Because staying behind didn't immediately ping to me as selfless, since he's kind of doing the same thing he did during the mutiny - picking the safest place for Gaius to be - even if in this instance that also coincides with staying with his cultists. I know he was staring at Caprica and stuff, and I think maybe he wanted to volunteer to impress her. But I was honestly unsure if his failure to do so was down to self-preservation or a sense of duty. I don't really know what to think at this point.

I do know that I kind of hope he goes just because he seems like the last shot I have of giving Caprica some kind of happy ending, even if it's just a sense of closure with him. It doesn't thrill me, but I know that under the right circumstances, they CAN sell me on it and...well...Caprica. *waves arms ineffectually* I KNOW YOU UNDERSTAND!