BSG: Deadlock: Okay so I caved. :(

[beccatoria]

So, yeah, I caved and watched it. I was right and it was better to just get it over with. It was both better and worse than I was expecting. Worse because it broke my heart and better, no wait, perhaps also worse because...there was some good, heartbreaking stuff in here but for reasons I cannot narratively comprehend.

Anyway, this isn't a proper review cus I'm basically only talking about one thing.

I'm attempting to understand the narrative logic behind killing Flipper Liam. I still hate it and think it shuts down complexity and reinforces boundaries rather than exploding them.

I still think it's unspeakably sad and cruel to do this to Caprica and and pretty much clinging to the fact that Tricia Helfer said she was happy with Caprica's ending in some interview.

I also think that even if either of these options are true, it was still a giant narrative cocktease because we didn't need to introduce Flipper for nine episodes to underscore either of these points, but. Maybe I'll rest easier if I at least contextualise the decision and hope that the show really did have a logic beyond, "OMGS ANGST."

Flipper's existence was clearly doing something to the Cycle of Time because he apparently stopped the visions of the Opera House.

Personally I've always found those visions to be extremely ominous and kind of thought they represented the continuation of the Cycle of Time, like...a locked in future that Athena fears so much she'll shoot a Six with entirely the wrong hair colour.

In which case, was Flipper a manifestation of something new that knocked the Cycle of Time off track? In which case, did he die because the Cycle of Time was reasserting its control and its no-cylon-babies policy? If the series ends with them breaking the Cycle, does that open the door for magical flipperbabies for everyone Twos, Sixes and Eights everywhere?

Obviously I'm in favour of this interpretation because I love robots and robot babies and think that hybridity as a goal doesn't have to be the only achievable goal and in fact exploding the boundary between machine and biological organism by giving the Cylon the ability to biologically reproduce amongst themselves is kind of awesome and is alien enough that it doesn't quite fall into the pattern of slowly taking away all that made the Cylon "other" in order to "humanise" them and make them "good" (you shouldn't live forever; you shouldn't share memories; you shouldn't have threesomes because they kill babies - literally!). Also the fact that while they might be doing it human-style, those kids would still be robots.

The other interpretation is, sadly, I think more likely. It's interesting because I hadn't previously thought that the Opera House visions could be a good thing, but depressing because of its implications for awesome Cylonicity.

The thirteenth tribe began reproducing biologically at some point, and perhaps, as now, that was the key event that made them decide to split permanently from the humans. As Tigh said, pure human or pure Cylon society doesn't work and represents a continuation of the Cycle of Time/Violence. If the Cylon in this cycle of time develop the ability to reproduce autonomously, then they'll leave the Fleet and the Cycle of Time is a lot more likely to be locked in. And in this case, Hera - as the future of blended society and perhaps something new and the Opera House visions represent an escape from that Cycle.

Mainly I dislike this version of events because it means we'll never see robot babies outside of the Final Five (who presumably were once robot babies themselves) and that seems terribly inequitable since we're not off killing all the human children because they aren't currently contributing to some blended future. Galactica herself is blended now, literally in the case of the ship but simply mixed in terms of her inhabitants (Hera and, I hope, Kara aside.)

Denying the Cylon an ability that humans have puts them in a much darker and more subserviant role in terms of this mixed society. They have to sacrifice "purity" while the humans, in theory, do not. (Note: 'purity' here is not a value I put much stock in; I desperately want the end game to have something to do with everyone eventually being half robot and half human; that would be awesome. I just also think that robot babies are thematically valuable and in no way detract from that end goal.)

Basically what it boils down to is this:

Ron Moore owes me: at least one mutant flipper baby, a satisfying ending for Caprica Six that preferably incorporates the fact her character arc has consisted of getting treated like crap repeatedly forever, more Cybrids, a Laura Roslin who pwns the universe, and I would not be averse to someone setting Ellen Tigh on fire. It's not that I entirely dislike her and her hilarious hijincks, but I'd really like to see her aflame right now.

Finally, I think we can all agree, Flipper and I would have enjoyed both No Exit and Deadlock about a million times more had Ellen decided to be drunk, manipulative and bitchy in the former and a serene Cylon alpha-mother in the latter. And she thinks Sam has bad timing.

Also this icon is now officially the saddest thing in the universe. I kind of want to change it, even though I love it, but I have no other Caprica icons.

Comments

[sabaceanbabe.livejournal.com]

I like your Cycle of Time theory and the Opera House being a negative part of that, Liam's death being the CoT reasserting itself. That makes so much more sense than the Twu Wuv theory espoused by Ms. Espenson. Alas, I doubt that's what they have in mind.

Poor Caprica.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Alas, I doubt it too, especially in light of evil podcast comments.

I just *flails*

WHY WILL NO ONE LOVE THIS WOMAN?!

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

I chose to see Liam dying as an example of what Tigh seems to have figured out and Tory won't let through her STUPID STUPID skull: a'mixin' is the only what that works. Cylon-Cylon leads to death and destruction, Human-Human leads to death and destruction. SHARON AND HELO FOREVER!!!!

Ahem.

If we do get robot babies, they'd better be from Boomer and Tyrol!

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

I think my problem is that while I actually want confirmation that a'mixin' is the only thing that works, long-term, Liam's death as a symbol of that is upsetting/problematic in several ways.

Because we're not out killing off Nicky and Little Gaius and Kacey because they're totally human. It means that the Cylon are again in a position of losing everything while the humans lose very little which strikes me not as a cool mixing of things but as forced absorption?

Plus it's not like we needed Liam to prove that mixin' was the only way to go since we didn't believe he was even possible before he happened. So it kind of seems...like a cruel tease. Like, why bother?

Liam raises craploads of questions about cylon/cylon reproduction and his death doesn't answer any of them. :/ GRR!

I would, however, be okay with Boomer/Tyrol robot babies, as long as Caprica gets some kind of good ending.

She's like, the only character I still actively want to survive the finale.

[coffeejunkii.livejournal.com]

i fear ron moore's ideas behind all of this aren't half as profound as yours :(. this reminds me that i still need to listen to the podcast in the faint hope that it might explain some of the wtfuckery of this episode.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I am...worried. Apparently the podcast explains not-a-lot and even says that the whole Liam storyline was a random storyline pitched by the writers and they had no idea where they were going with it.

On the one hand, I'm actually a lot more forgiving of random storylines that find their place as the series progresses than a lot of people. As long as they do a good job, I don't mind things being made up on the fly because I have a strong belief in the internal structure of stories and a story's ability to present good narrative options.

On the OTHER hand, in this instance, he'd damn well better be avoiding explaining the ultimate fallout of that storyline due to spoilers for later episodes because the idea that they did something that mystically significant then killed the kid to get out of a corner and never really deal with that is...awful.

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

I want a logical explaination as to why the baby needed to die. I guess I don't understand why something like this had to happen to Caprica. She's the character I most want to have a happy ending when the series is over. I didn't think I would be this upset over it, but I cried so hard when it happened. I was extremely attached to the idea of Flipper/Liam and I didn't realize it until those scenes.

I'm really interested in what Flipper/Liam meant to the Opera House visions and the fact that they stopped while he existed. Are they going to come back now?

Your icon hurts a little bit more now.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Yeah, at this point EVERYONE ELSE can die as long as she doesn't. Really. EVERYONE.

I'm worried that tying the visions to his death was just an excuse to explain why they hadn't had any in a while. Ugh, I was just starting to find some zen about this too *kicks RDM*

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

I want certain endings for certain characters and I'd be ok with most of them dying.

I should stop listening to the podcasts because RDM comes off as an asshat.

As far as I'm concerned, Flipper/Liam is with Natalie and they're living in the upper level of the Opera House.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

As far as I'm concerned, Flipper/Liam is with Natalie and they're living in the upper level of the Opera House.

I APPROVE THIS THEORY.

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

Good. I feel weird about turning Natalie suddenly baby crazy, but she loved Hera and I can't stand the thought of Flipper just being dead and never mentioned again.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

None of us are baby crazy. We're FLIPPER crazy and that is entirely different and appropriate.

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

I adore Hera as well, so I'll take "baby crazy" down to "BSG hybrid/cybrid baby crazy".

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

*joins you*

CYBRIDS. That is all.

[daybreak777.livejournal.com]

Ron Moore owes me: at least one mutant flipper baby, a satisfying ending for Caprica Six that preferably incorporates the fact her character arc has consisted of getting treated like crap repeatedly forever, more Cybrids, a Laura Roslin who pwns the universe, and I would not be averse to someone setting Ellen Tigh on fire.
Ron Moore owes you a lot! He did explain it a bit in the podcast but it still kinda made no sense to me. He says they wanted it left to interpretation that maybe lack of love caused the baby's death or maybe the baby died because Cylon/Cylon pregnancies are doomed to fail. He said while Tigh and Ellen think one thing, Doc Cottle probably thinks another. That's me paraphrasing but I honestly didn't understand.

I don't get why we don't get a definitive answer but maybe I just need to wait. Caprica deserves something, she really does. She deserves love. I know she was instrumental in the death of millions. But she doesn't deserve this, either. And we deserve a better story for her. And I'm cranky. A woman loses a baby on a show, where are her damn hugs at the end?

[nightxade.livejournal.com]

A woman loses a baby on a show, where are her damn hugs at the end?

Too true. Too too true.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the info. I also heard that in the podcast he said that none of the writers really knew where that story was going which leaves me horribly worried that they decided to just kill Liam for drama without any bigger plan in the show. Even though the very idea of a cylon/cylon kid without further exploration is silly because...dude, how did it happen? Why could the 13th tribe do it but not the modern cylon? It's just...blargh.

His existence raises so many questions his death didn't answer.

A woman loses a baby on a show, where are her damn hugs at the end?

YES. YES EXACTLY. I would forgive the show because I think it ended with her like, actually still in surgery with Cottle *sniffle* but...I have zero faith that we're even going to see her again before the finale when she'll show up for a third-string role in the Opera House and maybe run off with Hera because she has the baby crazies or something stupidly sad like that.

She's gone through such incredible emotional and physical violence in her search for someone who could match her capacity for love. One of the reasons I think I loved Caprica/Tigh was that despite everything, I really did always believe that Tigh had an enormous and selfless capacity to love others even as he hated himself. But apparently she still hasn't found that. And that's just tragic.

I know she was instrumental in the death of billions too. But then again, there are no cylon civilians. Every cylon was instrumental in the death of billions, except sleepers like Boomer, and that includes Athena. Because really, both she and Caprica defected but prior to that, was she sitting around waiting for her chance to fall in love with a handsome human and "do the right thing"? She was...part of the cylon war effort too.

She's done terrible things, as have many others. But like you say, this doesn't feel like just punishment. This just feels cruel.

[nightxade.livejournal.com]

I don't like that Liam died. I don't like that *Caprica* lost Liam. I don't like that Ellen caused her to lose Liam. Yes, as far as I'm concerned, stress caused the loss of the baby, with Ellen's bullshit being the final straw. I was giving the writers credit with the concept of them trying to portray the desperate Cylon belief that love is what makes babies - which would explain Ellen's utter return to being Ellen since she felt Caprica becoming pregnant by Tigh proved that Tigh had not loved Ellen all this time - but ultimately, it was Caprica's stress, established through the fight scene and then the two confrontations, that made Liam flatline. But then I read Jane's coy little up-in-the-air-question/answer and it pissed me off. I'm not entirely sure why, but I think, with experiences with and fear of miscarriage, blaming a lack of love for the loss of a baby just belittles all the painful reasons and non-reasons for such a tragic event.

I hope you are right about the Cycle of Time and the Opera House visions. It makes sense then for the issue to have been raised by Laura.

Liam died for a reason. It better be a damn good one. And I better see Caprica get some real good emotional air time, rather than have her sidelined like the mutineers. Cut the scenes of Bill walking around the ship drinking and give me some more characterization from everyone else.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I just...the whole thing is so damn sad, and I've never even had to be afraid of something like that happening to me.

I always used to be able to view Caprica's sidelining by the show as an ironic little meta comment on her sidelining by everyone else depsite the fact that everything that has ever happened on this show, nearly LITERALLY, is either directly down to her, or features her heavily (the original destruction of the Colonies; New Caprica; the entire clusterfrak of the Opera House visions and Hera's obsession with her).

But at this point if we just...don't even get told whether she's still living with Tigh or has disappeared onto the baseship (as, sadly, I fully expect to happen) that's just...horrible and borderline narratively irresponsible.

[pellucid.livejournal.com]

A cycle of time-like explanation would redeem some of this, I think. Or...anything, really, aside from the Twu Wuv explanation, because really, Jane Espenson???? What were you smoking?????

Ron Moore owes us big time. Unfortunately, he's soundly back in my "what fresh hell is this???" books for the things daybreak777 reports from the podcast. Apparently there are vast portions of plot that we're meant to magically intuit. Like the fact that Racetrack and Skulls and Narcho and all the other mutineers got hauled off to the prison ship, apparently. Which is why Baltar's cult needed to be armed. *boggles* Nice mutiny fallout there, Ron. Thanks for that.

*stabs things*

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Yeah. That pisses me off too because this sort of fallout is what I WANTED from the mutiny but it all magically and invisibly happens off stage, and also the fact that they're majorly undermanned for security as a result and that they're actually considering having to use CENTURIONS of all things really helps contextualise the decision to arm Baltar's people. It's stupid it wasn't in there when we got a GAJILLION shots of Adama wandering around the ship and drunkenly slurping alochol while joking about Tigh's grandfather the power-sander.

Apparently there's a cut that's eleven minutes longer that got shown somewhere at some point which has more of this stuff in it so maybe that'll be on the DVD. But, blergh.

And just...

I was starting to hope that there really would be some further dealing with this plotline but now all the stupid podcasty things suggest that no, they just didn't have any other ideas about what to do with Liam.

*STABS THINGS TOO*

[raincitygirl.livejournal.com]

pennyfeline heroically listened to the podcast (http://pennyfeline.livejournal.com/92716.html?#cutid1) and unless RDM is lying in it, the writers had no plan with Flipper.

*headdesk*

Just to depress you even further. That said, I don't think you should get rid of the icon. It's a terrific icon, and even more appropriate now (sadly).

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

*HEADDESK*

Oh, eew. I'd heard that he was being all vague about why rather than confirming there was a bigger reason, but I'd also heard that there was a lot he couldn't say for fear of spoiling later episodes and so I was hoping Flipper's death was one of those things. But knowing that they just...had no plans for that is not reassuring.

I mean, it's still possible that they made plans to include it thematically in the final episodes but it seems...less likely now.

And I say this as someone who honestly believes that it's okay to make stories up on the fly, you just have to listen to the story when it tells you where to go. Which dude, this is ridiculous.

Caprica really needs a satisfying ending at this point. She's been through so much and I unlike say, Tigh, where I feel that the show is aware of just how broken he is, I often feel that the show constantly forgets just how much its put Caprica through.

[cyborganize.livejournal.com]

it's funny, I always saw the Opera House visions as "good"! maybe just because I LOVE THEM SO. without having concertedly fanwanked it, I think my interpretation was that human and Cylon destinies are connected through Hera, and will converge in a common hybrid future.

if the idea is that only HYBRID, rather than pure or mixed, society can break the cycle, I'm in support! although I agree that there should still be robot babies.

anyway, I love this post and I hope it was therapeutic. I'm not really angered about Flipper on my own behalf but all this exposition of the utter sloppiness of the storyline is making me STABBY.

[beccatoria.livejournal.com]

Well I love them TOOO but they do seem somewhat ominous.

But yeah, I think my problem is that in my mind, hybrid society doesn't mean every individual has to be a hybrid at generation zero, nor that you have to undermine an entire half of that society by making their ONLY option to have hybrid kids while the same is not true for the other half. I mean, basically, if they'd never introduced Flipper in the first place, I wouldn't care. But to dangle him and then take him away is frustrating.

And the idea that the existence of the possibility of pure cylon children would drive the cylon away from the fleet is...a mcguffin to begin with rather than something I really believe since previously they were all, "we have to stick with the humans for protection!" and now suddenly they're all, "we have INFINITE FOOD UNLIKE WHAT LEOBEN SAID IN 4.0!" Whut?

The post did help, originally. Although now I'm getting stabby again with all these hints that this really is the last we'll see/hear of Liam and that Caprica will probably disappear into story limbo until the finale.